CichlidFish.com - Fish That Think.

[MidasKnight]

Ok, I've had my fish for a few months now and I've learned a lot so far (thanks to you guys, my good lfs and the mistakes I've made).

However, I am still lost on several levels.

First (and foremost), water. I have changed my water early and often and I have changed my water long after I should have. I am wondering if there's a standard for how often to change the water as well as how much or do you just go by the look (see lots of shit on the bottom) or the nitrate level?

Speaking of nitrates, I haven't had any for a few weeks now. Why? Because I can't seem to keep my bio alive. I had an ammonia level of 4.0 ppm and my nitrites were at (0.25) so I did a 50% water change and cut my levels in half (of course). This is the third time I've done this and I don't know why my bio isn't working (well, I assume it is because it died). I know I can buy some Bio-Spira (and it works wonderfully) but what I'd really like to know is how I keep killing my cycle. When I first bought the bio-spira my tank cycled in about 3-4 days (after one day the ammonia was significantly reduced). I did water changes once a week with a 5-gallon bucket. That got old quick so I bought an attachment for my sink so I could do the water changes more quickly, easily and neatly. As a Chemical Engineer, I happen to know that chlorine kills bacteria. We use it as a biocide in our water treatment systems (although, for demineralized water, we use sodium hypochlorite, not a chloramine). Am I killing my bio by adding water straight from the tap and dechlorinating as I'm filling? Surely not, but I am starting to wonder.

Also, my tap water is very hard and has a fairly high pH. I adjust the pH in the tank so it is always slightly acidic (around 6.6-6. but I can't seem to get the water hardness down. I have been adding salt but it seems to barely affect the hardness. Should I add more salt than normal because of the water hardness? Should I add something else to lower the hardness? Should I not worry about the hardness?

Is my pH (6.6), hardness (9-10°), or salt content responsible for killing my bio? I am starting to think I have too much salt in there because I haven't actually put anything in the tank to lower the pH lately and it is still 2 pH lower than the tap water.

Also, I am having an algae problem and my pleco doesn't seem to do anything but poop. Isn't he supposed to suck the glass clean? I'm going to get rid of him if he isn't good for algae. He's just an ammonia contributor as I see it now.

My Striped Raphael Catfish never seems to eat, but never gets skinny either. I know they are reclusive, and I assume he eats at night when I sleep, but there's always leftover food still on the bottom when I get up in the morning. I don't overfeed my cichlids, it is just the food they get all over from being messy. I got the cat to be a bottom feeder, and apparently he's eating something. Does he just eat a lot less than I think?

Ok, I don't expect any one person to answer all of these questions, but if you guys to pick a few to answer, I'd certainly appreciate it.

Thanks.

[Barb Okla]

hey, how'd the move go? i am going to tackle the salt deal, and maybe one more if I can remember what it said::
1.On using Salt, it will eratate the pleco, that could be why he's not eating. Salt will strip the slime coat off the fish at high doses. Not good! you should only have 1 Tables. per 10 gal with the pleco. thats half on what they recommend. i do that with no problems. And yes they poop alot! Put your intake tubes at the bottom by the gravel to pull the waste out. I cut bigger slates in mine to get the big stuff out!
2. Are you cleaning the gravel before you do a water change? If you are vacuuming the gravel ONCE a week then your ammonia should not be as high. What do you feed the Oscar? that could be a lot of the problem. Net out what he dosen't eat. More frequent W/changes will help.
3. Change/clean the filter media weekly. Clean the filter Boxes once a month! and the lift tubes, you would be surprised at the crude on the bottom of them and the slime that needs to be scrubed off. You need to clean the perpeller and the housing it sits in to keep the intake at full capasity. A old tooth bush works great here. get a bush kit for filter cleaning, long handled-fleckable.
4. Your water changing from the tap is a NO,NO! i dont' care what anyone thinks! it wastes water and their is no way to SAFELY declorinate the water!! Yes you are killing the Good bacteria on the way you fill the tank!! I use a 33 gal Tough Trash can by rubber mate and fill, add my conditioning-salt and airiate with a small submerged pump for a good hour before i change the water in ALL my tanks. I also use the pump and a 30 ft 3/8"id tubing to drain the tank to the toilet. a smaller hose to fill the tanks with the pump. $38.00 at Wal-Mart. (fountain pump)
Well, this is what I do. It works and my water is well conditioned.

[MidasKnight]

I like the garbage can idea (as long as I get a new one that's clean). Do you use a submersible pump?

Move? We were going to move but I don't remember telling anyone. Oh well. No move yet. Decided to wait and save more down plus clean up the credit a bit.

I was going to move some tanks around, maybe that's what you meant.

I dunno. I lose track of stuff easily.

[Barb Okla]

Your right! it was someone else that moved. Sorry!! It's hard to keep up like you said. That 33 gal trash can was under 10.00 at Wal-mart. So you can get it. the pump is available at different GPH so the price might be cheaper. i think I got the 350 GPH one. i wanted something to really drain-fill and not take all day as you stand their and make sure on no over flows/fills/drain to much out happens. it will make a difference on the chems in your tank and how your fish behave. use that fauset gaget to vacuum the gravel and fill the trash can. You will still need a pump (submersable) to drain the tank and pump into the tank, unless you use a bucket!! Builds great abbs!! (i need to do that!) What are you going to do about the salt? And your hardness is fine.. ours is in the Hundreds and I have no probs. Your PH is Way to acidic! you 'should' keep it around Nutrual-7.0. Mine is 7.6. that is out of the tap. I don't try and lower mine. My fish are breeding and i am raising fry like crazy! I have 9 tanks now. Fish will ajust to what ever they are in. You just add more chemicals to the water to make life harder for them. Your a chemist, You know what to many will do to you! think about that. Just my Quarter worth.. Barb

[MidasKnight]

Calling a Chemical Engineer a 'Chemist' is like calling a Sicilian an "Italian." While it is easy to mix up, they are two very different occupations (in both type of work AND money made). We Chem E's consider the word 'Chemist' an occupational slur.

Now if there are any chemists here, I've just insulted them.

All in fun though.

Anyway, I haven't figured out the salt yet. I thought S.A.'s needed slightly acidic water while africans needed slightly basic water. Am I mistaken?

My water changes are exclusively done by vacuuming gravel, but I have to stop before I'm satisfied it is done because I take out too much water. That's probably a sign that once a week isn't often enough.

[Barb Okla]

OOPs on the Chemical Engineer! i was short-changing the word, no affence meant! . On the PH on the American's it depends on the fish. Some like Neutral- 7.0 and others just don't matter as in the Salvini S.A - 6.5 - 8.0. Green Terrors S.A like 6.5 - 7.5. Mine are in 7.6 and I have found out it needs to be 6.8 before they breed. Midas C.American like 7.0 - 7.4. Oscars S.A like the same. Jack Dempseys a S.A thou like 6.0 - 7.0. Again mine are in 7.6, but they are growing and eating. I do believe they ajust to what ever water they are in. these are domesticated fish, not pulled from the wild at a PH they live in, to a recommended PH to keep them in at a wild state. ( Does that make since??) But you may not have to lower your PH as drasticly as you do. Less chemicals are better for your fish. Stillearnin can explain it better than me. Africans like it 8.0 and above.

[MidasKnight]

My tap water is around 8.0

[Barb Okla]

Holy cow! you need to have a African tank.. thats HARD WATER!! i'd drink bottled! Well I guess we are not far behind with 7.6. Yep you need to reajust the PH. But do some research on the fish you have and find out where they need to be, and pick a medium and go from their. If your fish are doing good were they are then leave it. But 6.6 is way to low. 6.8-7.0 would be better. And chil out with the salt.. ..Barb

[stilllearnin]

Holy cow! you need to have a African tank.. thats HARD WATER!! i'd drink bottled! Well I guess we are not far behind with 7.6. Yep you need to reajust the PH.

common misconception - a decient amount of the time my PH is 9.0 + (damn limestone well) and my oscars,severums,red devils and even my discus have spawned at 9.0+
oddly enough I don't have very good luck breeding africans

PH issues are an old marketing SCAM that stuck around - why do I say marketing scam? walk into a lfs and tell them what your ph is and 8 times out of 10 (especially at chain stores) they'll try to sell you something to change it. If it's insert # they tell you another #.
Whats the most commonly made product for fish? PH changeing products! Look how many brands there are and it's all the same stuff.

for those that really think PH matters a ton
here's some #'s for wild fish
oscars - pH range: 6.0 - 8.0 (higher in introduced populations)
dempsey ph range 7.0-8.0
Lake Managua - where red devils,midas and etc.. come from has a PH from 7.73 (march) - 8.7 (july)
even discus have a natural PH range from 4.2 - 8.0

I'm not a scientist but to me that says they tolerate a deciently broad range - so why add chemicals ? rember any and all chemicals in your water are absorbed by you fish.

Don't get me wrong there are times and situations that changeing PH does help - but most of the time it's a waste of money and especially if your just getting into fish it does nothing but cause stress (to you and the fish). which goes back to the #1 reason fish die = stress


seems noone ever agrees 100% on PH issues,so just pick the best way for you to keep it consist and avoid it jumping up and down

Should I add more salt than normal because of the water hardness? Should I add something else to lower the hardness? Should I not worry about the hardness?

1 - NO
2- NO - if you do use something like peat - not chemicals
3 - the only time you really should have a problem because of hardness is when fish are breeding - harder water = less eggs hatching

Fish will ajust to what ever they are in. You just add more chemicals to the water to make life harder for them.

agreed