CichlidFish.com - Fish That Think.

I'm so sorry for bothering you in this forum but I do believe I have an emergency. My dad is helping me with this note.

I have just posted my first message two days ago about how one of my mated pair of is red tiger oscars died and how I could find a new mate. I'm very sorry to say that my second oscar is starting to show the same symptoms ... not wanting to eat, staying towards the bottom of the tank ... that it's mate did about a week before it died.

As I said in my previous post my dad now believes that the oscars have hole in the head disease and we feel really, really bad we did not recognize it was as serious as it appears to be. Reading all the posts on this forum we should have recognized this much sooner.

To complicate the situation my family is on vacation and a neighbor is taking care of my fish so I'm getting all information by phone -- and there is only so much we can expect our neighbor to do although they have been great so far. I won't be able to get home until Sunday.

I've asked my neighbor to check the pH and it was is real low (this never happened before and have no idea why!!) and they went to the store and got some pH adjustment tablets but they told me they didn't appear to work. I think they didn't use enough but it's hard to tell from here. Don't have any other test info like I see in other posts. I'd love to ask them to do a massive water change with my python hose but I think that might be asking too much.

I'm really worried that my other oscar will die and I want to know what if anything more I can do either simple that I can ask my neighbor to do to help keep the oscar alive until I get home or what I should do when I get home on Sunday in which case I'm willing to do whatever it takes.

Would appreciate any advice you can give me. I really want to save my remaining oscar. My thanks for any help you can give me.

Hi again Mittens,

These fish sure are giving you a lesson on life. Sorry to hear about your remaining Oscar.

In the Disease and Treatment FAQ forum there is a real good thread by Oscar2001. You may want to read it.

Not having had to deal with this problem myself (thankfully), this is the best I can give you at this time. Maybe soneone else with more experience with HITH will reply to this soon.

Good luck and I sincerely hope you can save your Oscar.

I know that IF your Oscar has HITH, it is not going to do him in by Sunday..BUT is that tomorrow OR next week Sunday????

How low is the pH?? YOU really need to supply that. Oscars can tolerate to 6.5..

Do you think you can instruct them on changing out some water, they really would not have to clean the gravel but the filter may need some attention..IF you can get them to AT lest change out say 4 to 5" of the water from the top of the tank, that may help him alot. IF you decide to try this, remember to tell them to un-plug the heater BEFORE attempting to remove the water, then plug it back in when they finish..On dechlorinating the water with a python, tell them to fil/dechlor the tank at the opposit end FROM the Oscar..IF they have not feed more than pellets, your filters should be fine..YOU may also tell them IF he is not eating don't feed him..HE won't starve..

I don't want to instruct you on meds at this time due to you are not able to diagnois him..
Fresh water if they can do it is best for now..
Keep US posted when you get more information..

Mitten's dad writing on her behalf. Thank you so much for your posts. We will be home this Sunday so it's less than a day away. Our neighbor said the pH was below 6.5. While I certainly believe them we have never had such low pH before so I am anxious to test it myself. They haven't fed more than pellets. Very, very kind neighbors but water change a bit more than I could ask and will take it on personally tomorrow.

They did report this evening that the oscars condition was unchanged, so we hope it doesn't get any worse before we get home.

Once again, thank you all for your posts. We will provide more information when we get home tomorrow. Thanks!

Ms. Okla and Indy:

I have arrived home an my oscar, Striker, is still alive! I'm so glad I have a chance to help him. (His mate, a female, was the one who died.) When I saw him was sitting in the corner of the tank and had lost almost all of his red color. He also seems to have pock marks or craters on him especially under his eye and around his gill. I have taken some photos and I could send them to you if they would be useful.

Tested the pH and it was indeed low -- around 6.2 on my test strip. Changed about 30 gallons of water out and within an hour my oscar was starting to swim around again -- not lots, but my neighbor said more than she had seen him in the days before. My dad and I went out and bought water test strips and then tested and found the following:
Nitrate - 40
Nitrite - 0
Total Hardness - 75
Total Alkalinity - 40
pH - somewhere between 6.2 and 6.8

Water temperature is 82 degrees. Tank size is 75 gallons. For filtration, I have a Marineland Emperor 400 (with biowheels) and an internal power head running with a filter cartridge attached ... I make it generate lots of bubbles. I just changed all the media today.

From what we read in some of the threads, we added 1 tbs of aquarium salt for each 5 gallons, and then used some AmQuel+ to try to reduce the Nitrate level (seems other threads we've read say they have 0 Nitrate so we figured we should) and added some "pH up" to try to increase the pH.

Also, when my dad and I went to the pet store this evening the person working their said that oscars should have a pH of about 8.2. From what we've seen in other posts this seems too high. Is that right? Also, the worker said that once you see HITH it's already been working from the inside out and it's getting to be to late to cure. Is this also true?

Having read some of the other posts with my dad I'm afraid my oscar has a bad case of HITH, but I'm not sure. I would really appreciate any add'l advice you can give me especially w/r to any type of medicine I should give my oscar. Thanks so much for your willingness to help.

8.2 pH is to high.. 6.8 to 7.6 is a better pH to have him in.
BUt it must me STABLE, not going up or down..

Your temp at 82F is great, leave it their, that helps him fight and kicks in his metabolic rate..

YOUR hardness seems to be high enough to stablize the pH.
I dont' like the strips as they dont' tell the whole story. Total hardness is not acceptable in fish keeping. KH and GH act differently but both play a part in your pH being stable. YOU may need a buffer, you may NOT need any.. Invest in some liquid test kits..Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH low, KH/GH hardness kit.
DO you know what it is out of the fauset?? Please take a dip stick and see what it is. pH up is not a stable way to increase your pH, it will crash back down to a lower # within hours.

I do want you to do another 25% water change in 24 hr. Clean the gravel too IF you did not do it eariler..

TOTALY clean the Emperor..TEAR it down and clean it, I have 17 of them. Changing out the filter media is not cleaning the filter.. LEAVE THE BIO-WHEELS IN THE HOOD, DO NOT TOUCH OR CLEAN!
ON nitrates, you are always going to have them in the tank, what ever post you say that said they have none are full of it..(poop)..
YOU do need to keep it under 40ppm, 20 would be better but you are talking a lot of W/changes/filter cleaning to get it that low..

Did you not have salt already in the water before?? Putting more in on top of what you have can't hurt, BUT IF YOU DO,,on this next W/Change don't add in any more salt..

And I would say that he has HITH and the LFS was correct in saying that once they get it, it is almost impossible to get rid of.
BUT their are some meds that wil help stop it, but the pits wil remain, and you are going to have to treat him monthly for a few months. HITH also infects the intestinal track, that is why they dont' eat. (on MY research and experiences with this)
I have found one med that does help, it is called Metrozol.
http://www.petsolutions.com/Metrozol-I-82742530-I-C-40-C-.aspx
Now with this med you can only treat 2X.. So you need to skip a week and treat again.
THEN I would like for you to treat with this med to help kill it out, 1 weeks after the last treatment of Metrozol and 2-30%water changes:
http://www.petsolutions.com/Metronidazole-I-10108010-I-C-40-C-.aspx
This is the one you need to treat monthly with.

YOU have a big tank, and I dont' know how big the Oscar is. DO YOU have a smaller tank you can treat him in???
IF not, you can treat this tank but it takes more meds to do so..

IF I left any thing out let me know..Barb

HI Mittens

Welcome to the forums.
Sorry to hear your having some troubles with your Oscar.
As Barb has alluded to, ph, GH and KH are all linked together.

From what you have posted and as Barb has said the water seems to have a buffer, however you may have what is known as old tank syndrome.

I am curious, how long has this tank been running?

How often has your sub straight been clean/ vacuumed.

What size is your tank?



What happens in OTS is simply the total dissolved solids in your water (TDS) and the build up of dissolved organic compounds (TOC's) can cause a ph shock, or quick drop in the tanks ph level.
The break down of TDS and TOC cause a quick rise in Ammonia, which temporarily overpowers the nitrifying bacteria colonies, and the ammonia spikes, this spike cause's the ph to drop, amongst other things. (ie Dissolved Oxygen levels also drop dramatically)

This most often goes un noticed in most tanks, and with a hardy fish like an Oscar, it can go on long enough before it is discovered.
This situation tends to stress the fish, in some case’s it kills them out right, leaving a fish keeper wondering why his fish dies, since when you test the water, it reads normal, except for low ph.
Stress is also in my opinion, a major cause of HiTH.
I am a firm believer in HiTH being not a single disorder, but the same symptom showing up for several types of problems.
Anyhow post back, and keep us informed on the situation.

Thank you Ms. Barb and Fuzzy.

I believe I have some answers to your questions. My oscar is 3 years old and about 10 inches long. My 75 gallon tank is something I was saving up for since January, and it's only 4 weeks old. I transferred both oscars to it then after having had started it up for about a week. They seemed like they took to it really well -- even laid eggs (which hatched) after only about two weeks in the tank. My dad and I thought they made the transition well. The only thing that causes us to think is that we gave them some feeder fish as a welcome to the tank ... they were goldfish, and it was something we didn't do very often at all (maybe about 5 times in the last three years). Anyway, we noticed some white spots on the goldfish when we put them in the tank, and some got eaten but we took others out. They might have introduced something to the tank as well.

My dad did the 25% water change today, but also told me we couldn't get the medicine Ms. Barb recommended today, so we used some "parasite clear" from "Jungle" that we had which said it was effective against "flagellates such as hexamita or spironucleus associated with HITH disease. We figured we'd try it since we would not be able to get the good medicine quickly enough. Was this OK?

We also checked our water faucet with test strips (all we have) and our water pH is between 6.8 and 7.2. And Ms. Barb was right in that the pH up didn't seem to really make a difference in the pH of my tank.

Also, we didn't have salt in our tank before yesterday and added it based upon other posts my dad and I have read in other posts. We're careful not to add too much.

Good to know that the nitrates aren't so bad.

I only have one active tank right now. The previous tank I know was too small (30 gallons) and reading the other posts I now know that although I did my best it might have stressed them (even though they laid eggs 3 times in there). I could set it up again, but my dad said if the medicine doesn't cost too much it's likely best for us to keep using the big tank. If we can help the oscar feel better at least he'll have a good size tank to live in now.

All for now. Thanks again. I'll keep you posted. My dad and I really appreciate your help!:)

Good news!

Striker, my oscar, started eating today again for the first time since we returned from vacation. While he's not active as normal, he's swimming around and appears to be improving. He's been getting interested in food the last couple of days, taking a bite but then spitting it out. Today I'm happy to report that he has finally eaten some all of the pebbles that I fed him!

While I know from other posts that it's Striker's external wounds from HITH will likely never heal, and I've certainly learned a lot more about taking care of oscars through this, I hope that I can help him get as back to normal as I can.

Thanks again. I'll keep you posted on any further changes.

Sounds promising.. it may take time for him to come around. IF he does have HITH you need to get the Metronidazole ASAP and treat him as directed..this will kil out any protozoan in his digestive track and kill out the HITH on his head. THIS DOES WORK.. But as stated, the pits will stay. IF they are not big ones, he should be fine. Most live with the pits and have no problems. The Metronidozole IS the pure med and needs to be used. Please re-read my directions on HOW to treat with this med.
He wil get better but you need to med him ASAP..If you can get it on line, they are cheaper, but at a LFStore they should only run about 10 bucks.
Keep us posted..

Thanks for the reply. My Dad and I have been unable to find the meds at the local pet store so we ordered them on the internet. We're awaiting their arrival and will treat per your directions as soon as they arrive. In the mean time we did use the "parasite clear" from "Jungle" which is what we could find.

Thanks for your continued help. I will keep you posted.

I agree with what all thats been told here.
But since no one has Commented on Feeders I will.

I don't like using Feeders from a local pet Shop, as often times they are Mal Nourished, and not treated for any type of sickness.
Hence the Cheap usually less then a quarter a peice price.
I've loss Several fish due to Feeders from a Local Pet Store.

I've since Started Raising my own, So that i can be assured of their quality.
Well Nourished and Sickness Free.

If this isn't an Option for you, Have you thought about Frozen or Freeze Dried Treats, Granted not as much Fun to Feed as Feeders but they are 99.9% Free from any type of sickness, When bought from a reputable well known Company.
And a whole lot Safer then Feeders from your Local Pet Shop.

I like to call their Feedrer Tanks, Their "FEED AT YOUR OWN RISK TANKS":mad:

Please Keep Us Posted.