Outstanding post. DanRad, this is why you rock-and-roll!!:bravo:Originally posted by DanRad
Back in the days of the "balanced aquarium" the literature said a lot of things that we don't necessarily have to agree with today -- no matter who said them. With a less complete understanding of the nitrogen cycle came a fear of adding water with any great frequency or volume. Not to say it coulcn't work -- it obviously did. In fact as I recall keeping plants was somehow a lot easier in those days. Thinking back to the 50's, I don't think I ever changed water. I just topped off whatever was necessary to replace what evaporated. With incandescent lights and no tank covers, that was often a fair amount. I did do gravel vacuuming, and kept my filters clean (come to think of it, I did also change water in the bowl I was keeping my betta in. I was probably overfeeding him). In spite of this, goldfish and livebearers bore galore, so I must have been doing something right. Having said that, I'm now doing frequent, large-scale water changes -- yes, there are recognized authorities who have researched and recommend this -- and I like the result I'm getting. Is it the only reasonable way to proceed? Clearly not, but in my view it has been pretty well researched, it is effective, and has no discernable down-side other than the time spent. If I ever do a real "fish room" I'll probably try to set up a constant-flow system. I agree that this more closely mimics natural water flow. The fish farms in Florida for example use well-water from the aquifer there that comes out of the ground at a year-round temp of 72. Also visited a trout hatchery out in Arizona that is situated on a natural spring (cooler than 72), and use that spring water constantly flowing through their concrete troughs -- finally into a holding pond that is the beginning of a stream. No filtration, just constant fresh water.
Can you succeed with filters, disciplined feeding, minimal water changes, plants, etc? Of course! Are frequent, large-scale water changes just a fad based on ignorance? No! Are there other ways to do this? Of course there are! Nobody knows it all.
When you get down to it, the only place I have ever seen weekly water changes recommended is in newsgroup and forum posts.
The instruction manuals that come with Aquaria, Inc. products (Magnum, Aqua-Tech, Emperor, Penguin) -- Monthly. The manual that comes with the Whisper (Tetra) 30-60 filter
Monthly changes leaves no time for any measureable accumulation of nitrate
I disagree with your disagreement. You gave 11 quotes: 6 don't specify frequency, they only say "frequenty"; 4 are in reference to breeding; and 2 are in reference to Discus, which I think are too, too specialized to be included in a discussion about general aquaria. I think consensus still goes to monthly, (Dick Mills in "You and Your Aquarium", Herbert Axelrod in "Handbook of Tropical Aquarium Fishes", etc.). I think the pattern is that specialized breeders and some specific species need weekly, or more frequent, water changes, and perhaps general home aquaria kept by duffers like me need monthly? I don't know. Monthly has always kept my lil' tanks rockin'.Originally posted by stilllearnin
Have to disagree
You're right, but with us Oscar keepers it's the major consideration, because Oscars don't tolerate plants. Do you know of another contaminant that would increase at a faster rate than Nitrate in an Oscar aquarium?In my oponion nitrate is still NOT the only thing to consider.
Does that mean I have to dig through my books and find his "monthly" recommendation?:DAd Konings saw you pointed him out above
Does that mean I have to dig through my books and find his "monthly" recommendation?
you mean the book from 1986 Been a while since I've read or even had it,but....Dick Mills in "You and Your Aquarium"
Whats the thing healthy fish are driven to do most ? (after eating since we talk alot about oscars )4 are in reference to breeding
I'll never understand why that makes a huge differance? Is it because discus are "more sensative" ? Even though oscars and other fish can be caught in the same bodies of water ?2 are in reference to Discus
That I don't know exactly,but use a good TDS meter and you'll see theres a differance in TDS (total disolved solids) between a fresh changed tanks water and one thats went unchanged for a while.Do you know of another contaminant that would increase at a faster rate than Nitrate in an Oscar aquarium?
Please don't use my rants to excuse yourself from this basic. We're just wrestling with the term "frequent" --
Arrgghhh, I'll try to find it.Originally posted by stilllearnin
I'd like to know how old the book is?
Not that I know of.you mean the book from 1986 Been a while since I've read or even had it,but....
Doesn't that book or his next one reccomend 10-20% weekly water changes?
Splash. (hehehehe) --- The quotes you are using, though, seem to be in reference to inducing spawning rather than basic aquarium maintenance.Whats the thing healthy fish are driven to do most ? (after eating since we talk alot about oscars )
I've never kept Discus, but my understanding is that they need much more specialized care and water conditions than most other species. My impression might be wrong, though, since I've never kept them.I'll never understand why that makes a huge differance? Is it because discus are "more sensative" ? Even though oscars and other fish can be caught in the same bodies of water ?
It's funny to hear Ron Coleman say "I am not an expert on cichlid diseases" -- it's hard to believe, I have so much respect for his depth of knowlege in regards Cichlids. He and I got into several discussions on several subjects when we both frequented rec.aquaria.freshwater.cichlids around 1997-1998 or so, and I may be mistaken but I think he supported me in my rants against the "required" weekly water change. I would have to "google" up those old conversations, but I think he recommends weekly but does not require it.heres two more that aren't specialized:
"I am not an expert on cichlid diseases. My philosophy is: do lots of water changes and avoid getting diseases, then you won't have to treat them" Ron Coleman
"Do a weekly water change" Ron Coleman on keeping cichlid tanks.
And, frequent (adjective) meaning monthly -- Einstein was right, all things are relative.frequent (adjective) happening [b]often; regular; common; usual
monthly (adjective, adverb) happening or produced once a month [/B]
Splash. (hehehehe) --- The quotes you are using, though, seem to be in reference to inducing spawning rather than basic aquarium maintenance.
You asked how old Konings book was, and it occurs to me that most of what I look at for reference is older
Yeah Ron seems to know alot! Nice guy too, maybe he changed his keeping style over the years.It's funny to hear Ron Coleman say "I am not an expert on cichlid diseases" -- it's hard to believe
Maybe fishkeeping as an art has evolved and I missed most of it
Or their fishes died because they were only doing monthly partials, and have moved on to other hobbies - - -Originally posted by stilllearnin
, , , it seems the older reconized people have either vanished or went to work on breeding something. . .
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