CichlidFish.com - Fish That Think.

Hi,
I am relatively new to the hobby and I am thoroughly enjoying myself!
I have a pretty well established 29 gallon tank with about 20 sm - med size african cichlids of various sorts. I was wondering if other creatures (any species of crabs, shellfish, eel, etc.) can live in the same pH or tank (perhaps after adjusting them to it with a drip) as the cichlids.
Thanks for any and all help!
Dave

PS I have no interest in breeding if that makes any difference.
Thanks again!

20 AFRICANS IN A THIRTY GALLON?!!!!!!! Ok, firt off, i have a 55 gallon and at the most I CAN ONLY have ten of them in there! you best get rid of some of those fish dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Once you get that done then come asking what kind of species can get along with 'um.
p.s. welcome to the forum.
Hannah

nothing can go in with african cichlid's. They will consider crab's lunch and are really to aggressive for anything else,They will end up killing whatever you put in the tank.
Also I do agree with Hannah, I don't meen to critisize and i'm sorry but 20 african cichlids in a 30 gallon tank is a bit much

Welcome to the Forum and The Fishkeeping Hobby.

Don't you just hate it when you think you have done everything right and you ask a question on a completely different subject and WHAM the bubble is burst. Now you are finding out where you made your mistakes, and maybe you really didn't want to know. Everything looked pretty good to you.

Well, we are not bad people waiting for a unsuspecting new person to pick on. We are here to help you and we will always point out the weak points along with the strong and attempt to answer your question at the same time.

Having said that I now must say. YOUR TANK IS OVERSTOCKED!!!
Take a look at what I have in my 120 gal tank. And, I think I am on the verge of being overstocked.

You are going to have nothing but trouble if you don't get rid of some of those fish or get a much, much bigger tank. Take if from those of us who have tried, an overstocked tank will do nothing but hurt or even kill fish, and none of us want that.

Having said that I now must say. YOUR TANK IS OVERSTOCKED!!!
Take a look at what I have in my 120 gal tank. And, I think I am on the verge of being overstocked.

Hey, do you have a pic of that tank?
Hannah

Thanks for the responses! I had no idea! My tank is clean and my fish look healthy, what problems do you forsee me running into? I am trying to do this the "right" way, so I am surprised. I was actually informed to deliberately overstock because when they become aggressive, they "lose" the targeted fish in the "crowd". Anyway, I will post a picture of the tank shortly.

Again, I really appreciate the help and any further advice on how to set up a successful tank.

Dave

Yeah, you are going to be in for some trouble once a dominant male emerges from there. What fish have you got? You could fit 10 or 12 small shell-dwelling cichlids in a 29, but 20 of any cichlid is not going to do. Indy's example is not a good one to base how many africans you can keep in a 29, as he is not keeping African cichlids in his tank. Africans are an entirely different story.

Who told you that that might be a good idea? Was it the people at your fish store? The biggest problem in aquaria is profit-movitated sales reps, who very seldom even know what they are talking about. Wherever you got the advice from, I would suggest not trusting that source. Maybe were you told the 1 inch of fish per gallon rule? That rule is flimsy at best. And it applies to no cichlid I am familliar with. Cichlids tend to be territorial creatures, and if not given the room they need, they will kill each other. The "inch per gallon" rule is good for some species of freshwater fish, but not many.

I assume in your 29 that you are keeping mbuna (rock dwelling cichlids from lake malawi-there are many different species of mbuna, all of which are quite colorful). You, at max, could probably have 7 or 8 mbuna in a 29, depending on the particular species you wish to keep.

Post back with some more info about your inhabitants. Did you know you are supposed to have at least one cave or little cubby of some sort for every african cichlid in your tank? How many caves do you have? There are some aquascaping things very necessary to keeping africans.

There are a few species of other things that will do well with africans, but I'm familiar with nothing but the syndonits (spelling?) catfish. I'm not too familiar with any "oddball species". There are members on here who are though. Right now, however, your primary concern needs to be to thin the ranks of your tank.

P.S. We are here to help, and don't mind helping you get started. Welcome to the forum, man. With a little talking, we can get you on the road to beautiful, successful fishkeeping.

Sorry, I made my big long post while you were typing yours. In answer to your question, yes it is a great idea to overstock African cichlids, just not to the degree that you have done so.

For example...

In a 29 gallon tank, you might be able to keep 1 or 2 african cichlids peacefully. However, if you keep 3 or 4, the dominant male will begin to pick on all of the fish, but especially the weakest one of the group, often resulting in its death. The subdominant fish do not generally pick on other fish, at least not to the degree of the dominant male. However, in the same tank, if you keep 7 or 8 fish, the dominant male will spread his "picking" across all of the fish, and the weakest ones will fair much better. If you over-overstock, though, you'll run into problems with your biological filtration, and you will get multiple dominant males in the tank, and they will fight. You will also run out of territory for some fish to claim, and those fish will be killed by the ones who were able to claim territory. Its very difficult to get that "just right" number in overstocking, but it can be done.

Post back with a list of 3 or less species you want, and I can help you with which to keep and how many in your 29. I'm the local african expert.

HI and welcome to the forum.

A couple of questions

How long have you had the tank.
Deepseafisher already asked about the types, and if you post back for him, he is extremely knowledgeable about them.
Did you cycle the tank?
Do you use chemicals to adjust your water conditions?
Now to the mention of overstocked. That is in regards to the bioload a tank and filter system can handle. It is based on the types of fish, and there adult size's.
A 29 gallon tank can house a large number of neon tetras, or guppies, (50 maybe) yet it cannot handle one Oscar.
Bio load is a term for the waste matter in a fish tank. It is made up of a combination of things such as fish waste, (breaks down into ammonia) left over fish food (gain breaks down into ammonia) dead or decaying plant matter, decaying fish scales, and just about any other biological decaying matter in a fish tank.
Ammonia is poisonous to fish, extremely fatal, for some species a level of .2ppm or less, For others they maybe handle up to .9ppm.
Anyhow that is the reference to your tank being overstocked. It is not just the number of fish, but more the amount and type of fish.
Once you post back with the answers to the questions asked, we will steer you down the road to healthy and happy fish, and teach you how not to spend a whole lot of extra money in LFS/LPS along the way. :thumbsup:

Hey everyone,
Thanks so much for all the support!
Here are some answers to your questions to help you, help me.

Ok, as far as caves and cubbyholes, I have a decoration-sunken ship thing that has a bunch of hiding spots in it.
I've had the tank for about three months now, and I did cycle it first.
I do use chemicals to adjust the water conditions, which according to my amonia (0) and pH level test kits (8.2) is appropriate.

As far as species, I really don't know what they are. I have 2 albino ones (one has a pinkish tint), two that look like white and brown camaflauge (stoni something?) but past that I'm not sure.

Any other info needed please let me know? I can post pictures of the fish, but just now I tried to post a picture of my tank and I am having trouble doing that. I will work on that in the meantime.

Thanks for everything,
Dave

Hi,

Here is a picture of the tank,

What do you all think?!

Dave

First off, your camoflauge one is a livingstonii, and they get to be around a foot in length. The average 29 is not that wide, so they'll have to go. Do you know what species you would like to keep? If you can't I.D. a fish, its not a good idea to keep it in small aquaria. Sometimes you could get away with something you don't know much about in, say, a 100 gallon tank. But there is no telling what else you might have in there.

For species choices, I would suggest Yellow Labs (labidochromdis Caerulus) and Exasperatus (Melanochromis joanjohnsonae). Both are great, relatively peaceful africans that you could keep a total of 6 or 8 of in a 29 gallon tank. Judging by your picture, you already have some Yellow Labs. There is a good chance the "albino" fish is a snow white socolofi, a fish I don't have any experience with. I have read that they ought to do okay in such a tank, though. I can't really tell much of anything else from the picture. If you could get a closer picture of some of the individual types, that would aid in identifcation.

In your picture, it doesn't look like there are 20 fish in there...some must be hiding. I particularly dont see the livingstonii. There are definetly not enough hiding places for your fish. Each fish ought to have his own individual cave. The majority of the background in an african tank ought to be rockwork.

What kind of filtration are you running? It looks (just a guess) like a filter that ought to do okay. The tank rating (if there was one on the box) ought to be at least double the size of your tank. Africans can produce a lot of waste, and clean water is always a good thing. I am a firm believer in overfiltration.

Good luck with your tank, man. If you have any other questions, ask away. Try to get some closer pics if you can. They'll help us I.D. your fish.

I almost forgot to mention...I love the way your tank looks. Its got some decent balance to it. The only problem is your fish need a lot more hiding spots.

Thanks,
i'm going to work on getting some more rocks and hiding places and such very soon.
Also, I am running a Penguin 170 biowheel for the 29 gallons.
and last but not least,
I will follow this with some individual shots of my fish. I would love some help IDing them and sorting out which ones are compatible/Ishould keep, etc.

Thanks!
Dave

Here are some shots of my fish:

Deepseafisher:
Definetely a Snow White Socofoli.

Okay, cool. Sounds like adequate filtration. Good move on the rocks.
As for the I.D.s...
BRING IT ON!!!
We love a challenge.
P.S. I'll edit your post directly. That'll make it easier for everyone to know which pic I'm talking about.