CichlidFish.com - Fish That Think.

OK, I am sure this topic HAS been brought up before. But I really want you all to be open minded here. And help me out with this one. I have posted on another forum with not much advice/opinions at all. so here goes:

I have been reading these, and other forums for a long time now. Everyone here seems to be on the same wavelength when it comes to Cichlids and the space they need. many suggest that you need a very big tank in order to house multiple cichlids. And yhou all also seem to mention things like "My Jack owns 1/4 of the tank and my Devil owns 3/4 of it" etc.

But I was at Riverside Aquariums, they specialise in Cichlids and far out they have more than any other shop I have been to in Sydney. I was speaking the the lovely lady there for about an hour!!! We spoke a lot about life in general but also a lot about cichlid aggression. She suggested that getting fish when they are big is a bad idea as they are already so mean and aggressive. And that for my tanks I should pack them to the max with as many small-ish cichlids I could afford in one go, say 40 smallish/young cichlids for a 4ft tank. That way they can't claim a territory at all and what you get is a beautiful show tank with many cichlids in it of all varieties getting along together. She says why would you only want to put a few in there? Say to everyones standards here. In a 4ft you all may say put a Tex in there and a Jack and that's it as they WILL get big ONE DAY. But if you only have 2 in the tank then they will claim territory, one may even kill the other, but if you cram 10 or more in there then they will not kill each other as there is no territory to defend.

And besides, any tank surely is unlike the rivers and oceans where the territory is very vast. There are corners in tanks so if a fish wandered into a corner of a Jaguar cichlids territory it may get stuck there and get killed too.

The more I think about overcrowding the more I think it makes sense.
I gave a few things a go.

I put my massive Texas Cichlid in a 4ft tank with 2 Albino Oscars. Surely enough he started trying to kill them!!!!!
So I took the 2 oscars out of the 4ft and but in a blackbelt of almost equal size to Tex. The black belt was showing some major aggression and actually scaring and chasing Tex but after an hour of this Tex just turned around, as if he had a proton pill and then began to try to KILL by Black Belt!!!!!

I then decideed to throw into this 4ft Tank with Tex and the Black Belt:
2 Albino Oscars
Green Terror
2 Jack Dempseys
Red Devil
Massive 45cm pleco

And watched for a while, Tex after 30 minutes began trying to kill all the fish!!!!! He's just one massive, mean bastard!!!!! And I am sure no matter how big the tank, I am sure of this, he would kill whatever cichlid is in there with him.

So I took Tex out. And guess what peoples? All the rest of the fish, all the cichlids are getting along fine!!!!! There is one massive log in the tank, but no real territories to claim, they do almost fight a little at times but they never lip lock, the loser will just swim on and the agressive fish will just swim on too.

So, there was one massive experiment. I'd like to know what you really think about controlled overcrowding to prevent territorial breakdown of a tank in cichlids. Please!

Thats an interesting idea, obviously though as they start growing you would have to gradualy reduce the numbers for the bio load on the tank. I would also suggest a 75g tank instead of a 55g.
I agree with you that when you keep several together they cant claim territory and thus the agro is a lot less. I have kept 4 oscars and two angel fish in a 30g since very little to about 3 to 4 inches while I was getting other tanks for them. While they were in the 30g they got on fine but as soon as they got used to having a lot more space in other much larger tanks thats when the gloves come off and the battles start.

You would have to be very dilligent with water changes and have a tank setup with a kickass filteration system and already have cycled the tank (I would suggest cycling it for at least 3 to 4 weeks with a couple of good healthy non expensive fish. Also keep a very close eye on ph, ammonia(NH3),nitrite(NO2-),nitrate(NO3) levels,so you will need a test kit for all these. Also keeping an ammonia neutralizer like ammolock is good for an emergancy, but it can give false future test reading which is a pain.

Anyway I hope it works out for you as I think it would be a good looking community tank but would be hesitant to try it myself.

Let me know how you get on, Id be interested in the outcome.

Regards


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TONY S

http://ub3.homepagetools.com/Oscar2001/

anthonysnell@aol.com

OK, here's the update so far. It's been three days. In a 4ft tank:
Black Belt (17cm)
2 Albino Oscars (17cm)
Green Terror (12cm)
2 Jack Dempseys (7cm and 17cm)
Red Devil (5cm)
Massive pleco (40cm)

The Pleco is king of the tank in some ways, everyone makes way! And the BlackBelt is the most aggressive. The 2 albinos are a peaceful fish. They get a little challenged by the blackbelt every morning when the lights go on, but my lunch time they are all ok. I will end up taking the 2 albino oscars out and getting a 4ft tank just for them. And besides, the 2 albino oscars stand out way too much in the tank in any case! Come on peoples! I need more opinions!

That is what I have always done myself. Just loaded my tank up with Cichlids at an early age and just weed them out if you will. You will still have a dominate Cichlid of course but it tends to work out best this way. I have a Frontosa, Green Terror, Red Devil, Jewel Cichlid, Texas Cichlid and a Crawfish. All doing just fine >.=)

-S42K

I think your idea makes sense, and I think you could make it work for quite a while, but as they mature the desire for a territory will incease, as it is needed for breeding. So just purely hypothesising, I think the peacfulness of your community tank would start to decay as they became sexually mature. Also I have heard many people on differant boards mention that their tanks were fine for a while then one day they all started fighting, a larger tank was provided and they stopped fighting and went back to normal. good luck though and let us know how it all turns out.

tintin
im 29 and have been breeding and raisng cichlids osteos,and charanoids,since i was five.first fish,and first mistake red devile.second mistake/convict pair.
24 years latter and i have found the secret.there is no secret.you will always have one egg head in your tank that makes you just think of flushing his but.ALTHOUGH.the one who told you that crowding your tank is correct,crowding your tank with juvies was the best advice ive herd yet.you know why.IT WORKS.but heres one more idea.when you decide to crowd your tank crowd it with only single specs,no doubles or pairs and pleas note this has worked for me not everyone add africans.thats right afr.i presantly have a 45gl in it 1.clown knife
1.gold sev
1.red blooded parriot
1.pink convict
1.african knife
1.blue accura
1.pickled cich
1.calico cobalt
1.red zeb
1.blue zeb
1sunshine peacock
1.krabinsis
1.maingano/wild caught electric blue
2.jewls-males both
1.pleco
1.spoted raf cat
all in a 45gl with plenty of rock and cover so there is territory to be held so not haveing any obstructions is not allways the answer.finaly i have lost close to 100$ in fish to get to this point so dont get swayed buy anything if you love fish your gonna go through some ups and downs.
good luck boneytoung
if you need anymoore help
www.nusstrop@atlantic.net

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