CichlidFish.com - Fish That Think.

Is it possible for a fish to lay eggs without having another fish fertilize them?

stephilee wrote:Is it possible for a fish to lay eggs without having another fish fertilize them?

Yes. I'm not certain about all species, but with the ones I know about (like Oscars) lay eggs and then fertilize.

I've noticed that either my red devil or convict is laying eggs (i don't know which one it is or even if both of them are ) but will they lay the eggs even if there isn't a male to fertilize them? 

stephilee wrote:I've noticed that either my red devil or convict is laying eggs (i don't know which one it is or even if both of them are ) but will they lay the eggs even if there isn't a male to fertilize them? 

Yes.

stephilee wrote:I've noticed that either my red devil or convict is laying eggs (i don't know which one it is or even if both of them are ) but will they lay the eggs even if there isn't a male to fertilize them? 

Those two species are capable of hybridizing (cross-breeding) with each other as well 

  aww mannn.... Why is cross-breeding such a bad thing?

stephilee wrote:   aww mannn.... Why is cross-breeding such a bad thing?

For me this becomes almost a personal issue. So I'll try to word it non-offensively as it's not meant  towards any individual person.

1 - They ruin the hobby.
2 - Some are deformed and left to live suffering (parrot cichlids are an example)
3 - They have made some species almost disappear from the hobby and made several "species" go to the point where it's questionable if the species can be found in the hobby.
4 - They Ruin the hobby
5 - They cause a great deal of headach for anyone working with certain species (see above)
6 - When some idiot releases them they cause even more headaches then when some idiot releases a non-hybrid.
(anyone releasing non-native fish is an idiot)
7 - A big majority of them are sold,marketed,etc.. as pure fish (see 5)
8 - They bring more cruelty to the fish hobby.
Someone will always argue #8 saying how hybrids are loved or special or lucky or some other garbage. But the facts show things differently. Most (not all ,I know) of the new tattooed,cut tail , dyed and otherwise tortured "new fish" are hybrids.
9 ^ Often #8 comes about after the first round of hybrids is sold as a real species  ,and people are scammed! Once the truth comes out a new marketing stratagy is needed 
10  Often - when they hybrids stop selling they either get a new name or they get sold as non-hybrids (see #5)
See a retarted cycle ? It often begins with new hobbyists and alot of those eventually get frustrated and leave the hobby 

I still don't see a reason for them reguardless if I like them or not.
They come in no color normal fish don't come in.


They're not needed by nature.

Take your reddevil and convict as a perfect example.
If they live with,nest with and breed near each other by the thousands (maybe millions) in the wild and have no desire or need to cross,whats the point of doing it in a tank?

De-evolution? 



A good example of hybrids makeing a mess is red devils (and midas cichlids).(one mess that will likely never be gone from the hobby now)
Most are cool fish 
But most do not look like "red devils" (or exactly like midas either)
why? because 20 years ago they were all hybridized with Midas cichlids.
Now people swear they're the same fish,even in decient books.
Ever notice 99% of those two fish sold in the hobby are round headed and round faced?

Real red devils are NOT round headed or round faced or shapped like Midas.

One of my red devils as an example - notice it's not round headed.
(yes shes real/pure her parents were collected from the wild)


One of my midas as an example - rounder head and mouth
(yes hes real/pure ,all of his traceable background is from the wild)



Both those species come in the same colors.(barred,orange,yellow,white,pied,red etc...) what was gained by makeing hybrids? Nothing!
It just made a mess for people looking for information,people trying to bred non-hybrids and so on.

Thats bad enough.
Now look forward - New species become avaliable to the hobby.
If one looks similar to say the "red devil" (hybrids) most common in this hobby.  A "right" mate can not be found. What happens? A lot of shady people might decide to pair up this new rare (in the hobby) fish to a "red devil" especially since the hobby type "red devils" don't look like red devils.
That "new fish" wasn't seen by many people and everyone happy to hear there are fry in the hobby . Great! Until they end up being a 3 way hybrid.
New Fish Lost!

Some people think things like that are far fetched.
Some swear it doesn't happen (while doing it themselves  )

How easy can it happen? Decide for yourself.
Some "newer" rarer fish I have had the priveledge of working with.
(There are others even closer looking)
If either was hybridized to either of the above,think it would be easy to figure out to the avaerge hobbyist,especially when young?
Or would people playing Frankenstein ruin a species ?

This second one also appears in orange and white.



Another good example of the mess with hybrids in this hobby.
This is a Trimac - wild caught , real deal (mine)


This is a "flowerhorn" (hybrid from google)


This is another flowerhorn found on google.
comparable to and often sold in the red devil midas mess
(this fish is 99% likely to be 50% trimac and may even have siblings that looks like the one above)


After looking at the last picture.......
Here is another red devil (real/pure) (mine)
His parents were caught in Lake Nicaragua

Amazing how many of the "flowerhorns" like the one above him look very similar  and how many of the devil midas hybrids are sold as devils 
Helps make a nice mess 

There's some reasons a lot of people frown on cross-breeding.

wow I would have never known any of that, any now that you say that, my red devil has a rounded face    how upsetting.  I still love him the same but that really does bother me to know that they're sold for something that they're not.  But I'm pretty sure that both the convict and "red devil" are females so I guess there will just be a lot of eggs with no baby fishies.  That's kinda upsetting  but thanks for all your help.  it really gave me a new look on things.

Things like that (your post) is my biggest reason for dislikeing the hybrids.
The unsuspecting people always seem to get the worst end of the deal.

my red devil has a rounded face    how upsetting.  I still love him the same

The majority of people with "red devils" have them so it's no shocker.
Actually probally 99% of us who've kept red devils started out that way.
They're still cool fish. People screwed up not the "red devils".

point taken.  A quick question tho, I've noticed that when my fish layed the eggs they were a clear-ish color and are now turning a more solid white color.  Is there a reason behind it?  Also, I'm considering moving the fish to a different tank to see if the eggs will hatch.  I hate being a newbie at the whole breeding thing; I feel like I have no idea what's going on.  I'm completely clueless. 

I've noticed that when my fish layed the eggs they were a clear-ish color and are now turning a more solid white color.  Is there a reason behind it?

It means they're not fertile.

White = no good

Beige,yellowish,orangeish (usually beigeish for most cichlids) = fertilized/good

I hate being a newbie at the whole breeding thing; I feel like I have no idea what's going on.  I'm completely clueless

Everyone who breeds fish has been there.