CichlidFish.com - Fish That Think.

Barb Okla wrote:With all these water changes, their won't be anyting to test.. 30c is to much, that is 86F.. NOT good.. bacteria thrives in high temps. Turn it down to 26c ( 80F) and leave it their.. YOU said he has fungus on his underside. Do you vac the gravel with you clean this tank?? THE FILTER, do you clean it weekly too?? 50 to 70% water changes is to much.. ONE good tank/VAC  cleaning, AND CLEAN THE FILTER BOX,  and do some melaFix is all you need to do. I would do the MelaFix and PrimaFix if youi can get the later, and do them together.. IF you dont'clean the filter when you do the tank, then the water change is useless.. Cloudy Eye and the fugus problems is a sign of a DIRTY TANK/FILTER..

not sure what melafix or primafix is....could you please explain,would appreciate the input. and i vac gravel and clean the filters....the water conditions are perfect and always are thats why i am so baffled over this cause ive had my other oscar for 2 years and no problems.  but if you think i should turn the heater down i will.... thanks for the help

Melafix can be had in most UK places.. I am unsure on the PrimaFix.. I do know that you can get it in Austraila but dont' know about if you can where you are at.. CALL your fish stores and find out.. IT is a fungus/bacteria medication.. Does not hurt your bio in the tank and most fish do very well on it.. Any kind of OTHER fungus/bacterial meds wil work too. YES turn your heater down. 30c, (86F) is to high..  I would remove most of your decorations and see if something has not been missed..  AS you are doing all these water changes, the tank is going to cycle again.. and that alone is going to cause problems, with ammonai, nitrite spiking.. So monitor them both daily and do water changes of ONLY 20% of your tanks water volume to delute them down (IF they show)
How many large water changes have you done so far?? 

i did 1 50% and 1 30% water change with gravel vac and cleaned the filters but the water is starting to look cloudy.....but the fungus is clearing up on his belly

Sounds like your tank kicked into a "cycle" for some reason.  Not really too surprising -- 36" tank is just not big enough for even one full-grown Oscar without fanatical water maintenance.  I'd suggust trying to get your hands on a used 75 gallon.

Very often diseases are a result of poor water conditions, and don't require much more for their "cure" than correcting the water problem, at which point the fish's immune system can handle the rest.  Keep up the water changes at least until you get the test kits -- they will allow you to see what's really going on, but in the meantime the water changes will keep the nitrogen levels in check.  The worst thing that can happen is that the cycle, if that's what is happening, will be slowed a bit, but it will still progress, and meantime your fish will have a better chance of living through it.  Long term though, you really need a bigger tank.

DanRad wrote:Sounds like your tank kicked into a "cycle" for some reason.  Not really too surprising -- 36" tank is just not big enough for even one full-grown Oscar without fanatical water maintenance.  I'd suggust trying to get your hands on a used 75 gallon.

Very often diseases are a result of poor water conditions, and don't require much more for their "cure" than correcting the water problem, at which point the fish's immune system can handle the rest.  Keep up the water changes at least until you get the test kits -- they will allow you to see what's really going on, but in the meantime the water changes will keep the nitrogen levels in check.  The worst thing that can happen is that the cycle, if that's what is happening, will be slowed a bit, but it will still progress, and meantime your fish will have a better chance of living through it.  Long term though, you really need a bigger tank.

i just got my hands on a second hand 4 ft tank (50 gal-200 lt) it looks plenty big hes got lots of room as hes in there on his own.....so well see if that helps,it should cause i knew the 3ft tank was to small but i had to seperate my oscars cause thyey were killing each other and it was all i had but problem solved....50 gal should be big enough do u think?

Yes.  But get a water test kit!

just enough, expect to do several 30-40% changes a week.  doing a small gravel clean daily may reduce it to two 30% changes a week.  Test kit ...  under 20 ppm nitrates.  check to see if you have nitrates in your water supply, if you do, you are not cutting your nitrates as much with each water change.  It isn't too bad once you get used to it.  I trained myself on a small tank with goldfish and mollies.  Goldfish are DIRTY ...  they teach you a lot about water quality maintenance because you change so much water!!! 

Just keep checking your nitrates if you test for ammonia and nitrite and it shows 0ppm on each and you should be ok.  you might get lucky and have non-messy Os.  Try not to overfeed and take out what they don't eat.  Even if it means taking out a couple gallons a day to touch up the gravel and filter pickup to lengthen out the time between bigger changes. 

got paid today so ill get that test kit and post the results later ok........the water changes appear to be helping ,my oscar is now swimming around alot(very slowly but its improvement) but it appears that the scales on his head are peeling away or coming loose  it just dosent look right?what do you think this is?.......i was thinking perhaps this was a good sign that he was recovering cause i see alot more movement out of him?

Can you post a pic?  Hate to guess, but in could be HITH.  This is often a sign of poor water conditions, and is treatable -- most importantly by improving the water conditions.

does it look like it was damaged scales that are starting to be pushed out and away (with new growth underneath)?

just did nitrate and amonia test....all is good no traces of either......and the scales arnt damaged they just appear to be loose like they are in early stages of peeling away.....sorry but thats the best way i can describe it i will try to post a pic later........im very familiar with hole in head syndrome and i am confident that it is not the problem.........
........this is the weirdest thing ive encountered ....ive raised oscars sinse i was 12 and ive never seen anything like this....everytime my oscar seems to be making progress this disease seems to evolve and mutate into something else.....i am very confused?    now he has a med sized white blotch(discolouration) on his dorsal fin and a white discolouration on his right side,top half of his body?......so today i cleaned his tank again and tried some (BROAD SPECTRUM ANTIBIOTIC) for the treatment of disease in fresh water fish caused by tetracyline sensitive bacteria.....

so i will see how this treatment works

Did you mean no traces of nitrite?  It is quite unusual in a established tank to have no 'trace' of nitrates, because the end result of nearly everything is nitrate (nitrogen cycle, decaying food, even dissolving poop - scary thought if you have nitrate in you tap water!!! - why I drink bottled water).  If you did mean nitrite, you more importantly need to test for nitrate, because a high concentration of it will without doubt contribute to diseases of all kinds (dirty water syndrome) ...  no ammonia would mean at least that part of the cycle is complete, combined with no nitrate, would mean your nitrite eating bacteria need to establish, which should happen soon.  No cloudiness?  I am not assuming that your tank has bad water, I don't want you to take me as attacking you at all.  I just want to clarify ...  Unless you change all of your water constantly OR have a bunch of live plants and algae WITH regular changes and maybe some nitrate eliminating chemicals, nitrate should almost always somewhat register ... 

As far as the white stuff, I hope the stuff you got is going to work.  I will do some research and see what I can find.  Hope the best for you!

Kenshin_Himura wrote:Did you mean no traces of nitrite?  It is quite unusual in a established tank to have no 'trace' of nitrates, because the end result of nearly everything is nitrate (nitrogen cycle, decaying food, even dissolving poop - scary thought if you have nitrate in you tap water!!! - why I drink bottled water).  If you did mean nitrite, you more importantly need to test for nitrate, because a high concentration of it will without doubt contribute to diseases of all kinds (dirty water syndrome) ...  no ammonia would mean at least that part of the cycle is complete, combined with no nitrate, would mean your nitrite eating bacteria need to establish, which should happen soon.  No cloudiness?  I am not assuming that your tank has bad water, I don't want you to take me as attacking you at all.  I just want to clarify ...  Unless you change all of your water constantly OR have a bunch of live plants and algae WITH regular changes and maybe some nitrate eliminating chemicals, nitrate should almost always somewhat register ... 

As far as the white stuff, I hope the stuff you got is going to work.  I will do some research and see what I can find.  Hope the best for you!

thank you for all your help and everyone else on this forum, i appreciate ur efforts ............the meds seem to have cleared up the white discolouration and he is swimming around but still not eating and his eyes are still cloudy.......also he is in a 4 ft tank with no ornaments,just gravel and a filter thats it....i think he is slowly improving but i also noticed a long strand of green poo from his anus? im guessing its green cause he hasnt eatin in 4 weeks? and there was no traces of nitrate or amonia in his tank probably cause ive been doing alot of water changes,hoping good water quality will clear his cloudy eyes?.....................any thoughts

just had a look at the test kit its called AQUA ONE PRO DROP nitrite test kit NO2.........I FOLLOWED THE DIRECTIONS  carefully and tested twice just incase...and the test water was clear not pink so no nitrite in tank

....was i supposed to get a nitrate test kit? did i get the wrong one? nitrite\nitrate......c'mon there pretty close

I do applaud all of your efforts!  Happy to hear he has cleared up, and with good water his eyes should too.  I will keep trying to give you the most accurate info I can, or search to find it if I don't know.  Some people use an elixir of MelaFix, PrimaFix, and StressCoat, all at recommended doses for your gallonage ...  i have heard others using this method with good results, that with clean water and time usually gets the job done.  Have you tried some freshwater aquarium salt?  1 tbsp per 5 gallons ...  just dissolve it in the water you are adding back to the tank, it is better to go light on it, since the salt doesn't leave when water evaporates, then you won't have too much in there.  I used it setting up my tank, but have weened it out through my changes.  It is claimed to help 'reduce stress' and build up slime coat, so does StressCoat (as well as being a dechlorinator).

A 4ft tank is usually 55 gallons/208L.  and having gravel and filter only is a good thing for an O since they are large fish who love to swim (even if it is when we aren't looking).  An air stone would be a plus to add to the opposite side of the tank as the filter to break up more surface tension for better oxygen introduction, especially if you are the type like me to keep the water all the way at the top.  I bought a dual outlet from Wal-Mart for $20 that is quiet and works excellent.  Hosing and the blue air wands are pretty cheap too.  The pump comes with valves so you can cut flow, and a splitter so you could technically run 3 things off of it.  Doesn't come with anti-drainback valves, but they are cheap, the ones at PetSmart have air filters in them.

As far as the green poo ...  what did he he the last time ...  I know Hikari Cichlid Staple is green.  Are they any live plants?  He may be sneaking in a meal on them.  If you leave the food in the tank and don't take it out right away, he may eat when you aren't looking.  He does need to eat soon, 4 weeks is a long time.  Try getting some live crickets, frozen bloodworms, peas work too but shell them or he will and leave the shells on the bottom of your tank.  Although feeders are the best without quarantine, his instincts may kick in and he will at least get something in his tummy.

As far as the test kit ...  I have no personal experience with the one you have purchased.  You are right to follow directions well, because it can give false readings, as well as using the same test tube for different tests.  I have marked mine with paint patterns and the cards as well, to make sure I don't mix them up.  I use the API Master Test Kit.  You can print a coupon from PetSmart and save a good amount of money.  The test strips and those things that affix to your tank are not very accurate.  They also have the API nitrAte test kit separate, usually hanging on a rod.  It is also suggested to wait a while after changing water and get water from the center of your tank.

I know the names are very close but NitrIte (NO2) is what happens when the first bacteria eats the ammonia, then, you have a second bacteria in the filters that eat the nitrIte and turns it into nitrAte (NO3).  A well established bacterial colony will quickly eat up all the ammonia and then nitrIte that is produced, with the end result of nitrAte (ammonia -> nitrIte -> nitrAte;  decaying food -> nitrAte;  dirty filters -> nitrAte - always clean filters in tank/treated water).  So, that is why your ammonia and nitrIte should always read 0 ppm, if it doesn't then either your tank has un-cycled or you are going through a mini-cycle.  That could be caused by the filter not running for a long time and the bacteria starved, the bacteria was exposed to chlorine, and some say it happens when you do a 90-100% water change (which is almost always not needed)  Too bad they haven't found a bacteria to eat nitrAte and turn it into something that is not harmful.  My test kit for nitrAte has a 5, 10, 20, 40 ppm (and higher ones but 40 is bad).  When possible, I try to keep it as low as possible.  I have had readings above 10 ppm in my tap water before, but now it is gone, but I always use Nitraban which helps get rid of the traces.  I will admit, the nitrAte test is a pain.  You add 10 drops of the first bottle, shake it, shake the second bottle for 30+ seconds, add 10 drops, shake the test tube for 60+ seconds, and wait 5 minutes.

You care and try and that is what matters to me.  I want to see your friend recover and be a menacing O again.

Now, as far as water changes ...  another reason why the NO3 NitrAte test is great to have ...  If your readings are staying under 10 ppm, (for some 20 ppm others 5 ppm) ...  then you don't have to do the big water change!  Since you are used to frequent water changes, I suggest what I do and change out a bucket a day (or every other day) to clean up poo and uneaten/spewed through gills food.  Then when I do the big change, I shut my filter down and with the first bucket taken out, rinse one side of the media in the tank water, put it back in, take out the intake tube and clean the strainer and tube (the Emporer come with a handled brush).  The second time I do a big change I get the other media.  The third, I place all the filter media in the bucket, take the whole thing off and clean it with the tank water, removing the impeller and cleaning it, to make sure it doesn't get build-up to slow it down.  I am no expert, so if someone else gives you better advice as far as this goes, by all means, take it.  Make sure you are topping off the water in the filter with treated tank water too.

Keep us updated on the progress.  We are all hoping for the best.