CichlidFish.com - Fish That Think.

recently, maybe 5-6 days ago, I noticed my golden oscar (9 inches) didn't eat any of the pellets I feed him.. so I just waited and fed him again the next day,, and the same thing happend.  he hasent ate the pellet since.. so i tryed to give him some krill just to see what he would do,, and he ate it no problem...  having said that, this is truley weird because he is the most aggresive fish at feeding time in my 90 gallon tank of 2 oscars and 2 jack dempsy.. my water chemestry is all fine, (i've checked) including temp. etc....
i noticed little tiny white worms on the glass of my aquarium and some floating in the water... they are very tiny, and i can barely even see them because they are so small a microscope would be needed to see them for sure,,, i'm pretty sure they are just from overfeeding but the over feeding is no longer a problem.

and lastly just wanted to say that the oscar has been swiming on his side and scratching himself off  the gravel, and my rock ornaments.. this has never happend before in the  past year since i've had him and no signs of ich or any other visual signs of disease are appearent..    i would appreicate any help/advise i can get

I would really clean this tank.. I mean, REALLY clean it.. scrub the deco down, VACUUM the gravel really good, CLEAN  the filter REALLY GOOD!! Change out all filter media pads, clean out the filter box its self.. When fish scratch on objects they either have an irritation of some kind and that means a few things.. Parasites you can't see, or HIGH nitrates to the pH increasing/decreasing to much in a 24 hour period.. SO although you have checked your water and IT seems fine, check the pH and NITRATES and see where they are..

On him eating, they do this, some like varity as you have seen, so going back and forth with different foods with an Oscar is always a good deal... 

IF the pH is normal and has not changed ANY and the NITRATES are under 40ppm.. then after the tank cleaning I would do some parasite meds... NOW there are a lot out their you can do.. So please concider that this could just be a minor parasite then again could be something else..AS we dont' know and it is an earily sign of HIIM scatching, do one that is NOT harsh and wil not disrupt your BIO in the tank..  I reccommend  JUNGLE parasite clear.. this wil take care of most parasites external and internal and won't mess with your bio..  As you have a 90 gal tank, you wil need two boxes..

REMEMBER to remove ALL CARBON from the filters.. 

thanks for the reply,,, i checked the ph/nitrite/nitrate's and all is fine... even so i did about 70 percent water change/ gravel vacuum with my python hose

i havent noticed any  body scratching today before the water change or after..  still looks very healthy, also i havent fed them today...

do you think its a good idea to not feed for the next few days to see if the tiny white nematodes  starve ?  what should i do..? i dont want to get into the habbit of feeding him  krill only.. when i feed them i normally give 2 variations of cichlid pellets and a small amount of krill/tubifex or squid/prawn  so there always has been variation in their diet, which doesnt help to explain  getting bored at eating the same food very well to me.  if this is all that can be done i will proceed in adding the jungle meds.. but i would prefer that to be last resort

I wouldn't worry to much on he's eating.. As long as he eats he is fine.. Some Oscars go weeks and not eat and  then they start eating again and they do fine..

70% of a water change is kind of TO MUCH.. that is like 63 gal of water.. IS this how much YOU THINK you did???
MY fault here as I didnt' advise you on an amount.. ON a big tank this could be OK, but ON a small tank, this amount would make it cycle again and THAT you dont' want!!  BUT hopefully, it wil be OK... You might want to check the Nitrites again in 24 hr and see where they are at... JUST to be sure... Smaller changes are more needed to keep your NITRITES and NITRATES down.. Here is how I calculate them:  NOW I don't know how much deco you have and substrate as this takes away some of the galllons so lets say you lose 5 gal of water in this 90 gal tank.. SO now it is a 85 gal tank....

85 x .20%=17 gal of water out/in... NOW to meassure in water conditioner/salt/buffers, round it off to 20 gal.
85 x .25%= 21.25 out/in again round it off.. 20 gal of water..
85 x .30%= 25.50 out/in round off to 25 gal..
85 x .40%= 34 out/in. so do 35 gal.. As you can see, this is a lot of water, even in a 85 gal tank..

So if you did 70%, well, that is 59.5 gal of water...Your tank is going to have problems cycling.. as YOUR NITRITES were high, they should not be in a cycled tank...  IF this is what you have been doing on water changes, then it won't get better on the NITRITES as it does not have a chance to cycle into the NITRATES.. YOUR NITRITES should register 0ppm.. IF any other reading then your tank is cycling AGAIN as yoiu are removing to much water at one time.. That 30% should be all you are doing on this tank.. YOU might get by with the 40% and not have any problems.. ON my 75 gal, 70 gal with the deco I have.. I do 20 gal only..  THIS should be done WEEKLY on a regular WEEKLY schedual that you can handle and remember to do.. Oscars are some of the mesest cichlids you can have, so they really need their tank cleaned often.. NOW if you are using a python to do the tank with, this wil remove to much water before you know it.. I try to remove all my deco or stop hafe way in my 125 gal,  redo one side/demolish the other, and  clean as fast as I can before I lose to much water..  I have marked on the side of  my tank with a green marker a line and I stop their.. IT is right at 30 gal as my barral is 30 gal.. this holds my pre-mixed water and I pump it into the tank.. I use a regular gravel vac and a 30 ft long tubing to outside or to the toilet, depending on the weather.. (snowing right now!!)

You might want to do a line/marker/tape on your tank so you know where to stop at.. To much water out is not good and your Nitrites are registering and that is not good... 

NOW on the meds.. UP to you as Jungle parasite clear is a mild med really.. I am using it on MY pond goldfish right now that I brought in for the winter.. Ponds are breeding grounds for all kinds of worms, and I know it has leaches as I have seen them in my plants and at the bottom of the pond.. NONE on the fish but still.. I like to make sure...

SO as they are just goldfish, but fancy ones,  I am sure your tough Ocscars and JDs can handle this med..

alright then i will follow this advise but im going to feed very little anyways for the next 2-3 days just to keep the waste down where i did such a massive water change... Normally i only do a 15-20 percent water change every week or 2... and honestly this is the biggest water change i've ever did.. i just was under the impression that i should do a large water change when you bolded the cleaning of my tank,,, which is not your fault by the way just my mis-interpretation...  however i have a fluval fx5 wich holds a bit of water that is also unaccounted for in my aquarium, and i have lots of foam with billions and billions of beneficial bacteria, so im almost sure even that large water change wont hurt my nitrogen cycle.. and to be safe im adding nutrafin cycle now... but back to the oscar and his feeding, it is the first time i've witnessed this kind of behavior in the experiance i have in fish keeping and i have a 72 gallon tank also with african cichlids and i've never seen them do it..  but im gonna take your word for it that this is a common problem that oscars can have and just hope that the meds work and he is back to normal asap
THANKS

Cleaning the tank is one thing but to much of a water change is another.. AND I see now why your NITRITES are high. you have not been doing enough on water out/in to delute the toxins in the tank.. Oscars are really messy and I am sure you know this now.. So a good vacuuming of the gravel weekly and meassure how much water you remove is emportant so you know you are doing a good job.. HITH can develope in weeks with high NITRATES over 60ppm.. so be aware of that.. MORE water out like the 35% to 40% for your tank is great.. This wil keep every one healthy and flurishing..

ON your canister, GREAT.. we didn't get into the filter type you are using.. DO you have any Hang On Back filters on the tank at all?? ANY you can add with bio-wheels will help you here on your nitrites big time.. Monitor the nitrites tomorrow and see where they are.. IF you did not clean the filter media out any, this could make the large cleaning do OK.. just have to see...

I am tying to type while you are on and having a bad spelling problem.. figuress.. Let me know on your other filters...

ON the meds..WAIT and see how they do but any scratching in 2 to 3 days after the water change, you might want to do the meds.. CAN'T hurt them!!  UP to you YES or NO if they continure to rub on deco...

hey sputnik, I wouldn't worry about the big water change..the BB (beneficial bacteria) is primarily in the filters, substrate, and basically on all the surfaces of you're tank, which brings me to a point of concern...I wouldn't completely clean the tank filters substrate and all, if u replace the filters and sterilize the tank u will cycle for sure. As for the feeding, It's very common for Oscars to get picky and turn up there nose at there staple (pellets) U can't give in and feed only krill and the such. These are not staple foods and won't be enough to maintain you're O's health. Best thing to do here is be stubborn, feed nothing but the pellets and if he doesn't eat em in 5 minutes or so, then remove them and try again the next day. An Oscar won't starve himself, can go WEEKS. Once he starts eating again, then feed the krill only after he eats the pellets and only a small amount. Be strong and don't give in to those puppy dog eyes.
Oh 1 more thing.. u can try a diferent staple as well, mine go nuts for cichlid sticks, and hickory makes a good pellet that taists better, or so sais my Oscar 

yeh barb thanks for reminding me.. i never really thought much into using more filters becase i have  a load of them.... i have an unused aquaclear 500 and 2 other  for 40-60 gallon tanks... not sure the brand...  but anyways i can probably set up my aquaclear and see if the extra carbon media will absorb any high nitrates..

also  my O looks pretty sleek today, no scratches from scraping on deco... and i havend noticed him acting weird at all...  becides the eating problem.... 

i have a sailfin pleco i have been meaning to add to my oscars tank but for the last 3 weeks i've had it quarenteened in my breeder/feeder guppy tank.. and i dont want to add it until this problem is cleared up.. im worried there could be some malicious parasite  in the tank.........    anyways thanks barb..

and tomiosis,, i said i feed 2 variations of pellet but really  one of them is  nutrafin cichlid sticks... they seem to be a faveriote choice for most of my 12 cichlids.. and were for my golden O until i started having this problem..  thanks for the imput...

Any filter wil be great to use here to help you out more on keeping the tank cleaner as in dispersing the nitrites and nitrates better..BUT you also have to clean these filters out on tank cleaning or you just let the build up waste and food back into the clean water which is probiblely why your nitrites are high..

ON the pleco he should do fine ONCE the nitrites go to 0ppm AND they will with more cleaning of the substrate/filters/and NOT to much water out/in..

As for the scatching/rubbing, this seems to be from the high NITRITES and not a parasite problem.. AND you are TRYING to solved that problem for now.. This will irrate them so they rub on deco..

Hold off on the meds for now.. I dont' think you need them...

Keep up with WEEKLY TANK CLEANING AND  MORE FILTERS will help you here too..

Keep us posted on how they do in a few days.. TEST the NITRITES and see where they are.. IT is also a good Idea if you HAVE NOT CLEANED/RINSED OUT the canister to do so.. USE tank water in a bucket for your bio foam and rinse out the canister in the sink.. Pour tank water on the bio balls IF this filter has them to rinse off any accumalted material.. This won't kill of your bio, just get rid of the extras that may be causing high nitrites..USE a colunder to rinse them off... the Carbon pad/loose media can be replaces if you feel it needs to be..

ok... i clean out my cannister every month or so and there is seriously no extra debris in there (i must have good bio going on) honestly the only thing ever in my sponge is a few hairs from my dog..i dont know how they get in but i guess thats alright.

anyways i will post again in a few days or so to update on my predicament
thanks

just writing to update on the situation with my oscar...  he still isnt eating,,, because im not giving any krill or anything just giving t he pellett, but he still hasnt ate. i havent noticed any scratching on deco at all, and he still looks healthy.. but the little a-hole wont eat.. he has to be hungry as he can possibly get anyways, considering he hasnt eaten in 2-3 days, and he swimms up to the glass aggressivly like the other oscar and 2 jack's when its feeding time, but he doesnt eat any...
i really dont want to get into feeding krill and other foods that arent considered a staple food on a regular basis but i dont know what else to try... im gonna wait a nother few days before it comes to that though i think...  ok all for now im going to bed i will check this again tommorow  afternoon

I bet he is holding out for the Krill.. I had the same problem with my Oscar once.. I did however feed him every two days the foods he liked then all of a sudden, he started to eat the other foods,, Pellets mostly.. I also feed them Frozen Salad shrimp, thawed out hot tap water then drained and tank water added in to displace the chlorine and tear them in hafe to feed them.. this is a natural food for bigger fish.. Cheaper too as a pound is just under 5.00.. 

DID you change pellet brands by any chance?? Seem my MIDAS can tell when I go to a different brand.. The female wont' eat any thing but Hikari pelllets and they have to be the big ones. Feeding the  Med size they wil both ignore them..
Goofie fish any way!! 

yah this could very well be the problem, considering there isnt any visible signs of parasites...
im going to pick up some frozen mixed seafood later today, cocktail shirmp, lobster chuncks, etc..

just out of curiosity... im wondering what you would reccomend for a feeding schedual...
i was feeding my little buddies once a day... but i broke it up into a noon and  evening feeding.
im wondering if just one feeding will keep them satisfied?

there was no reason for me breaking up the feeding into 2 instead of 1, other than thats what i have to do in my african setup to aviod some shredded fins so i deemed it easier to feed them both the same sched.. alright

peace....... in the middle east,, unless ofcourse you are a republican

On feeding once or twice a day, How big are they??  as mine are adult size, I feed once daily.. NOW on treat day, which is every 4 - 5  days, they get salad Shrimp 3 or so hours later and when they see the coffee cup, they  really get  excited to see that coffee cup!! I can't drink coffee in the room because of this!! Even my severums see a coffee cup and get excited and won't eat the pellets..

So if your want to feed more than once, just be aware of the this means more ammonia build-up from more waste in the tank.. So it is up to you.. Adults dont' need the extra food as they slow down so much and just hoover you could say in the tank.. Mine eat and just hoover or nap like state for a while.. so they dont' burn off the extra calories and this may make them fat.. so I have learned to just feed the adults once daily.. Except on treat day..

On the seafood mix MINE would not eat it.. NOT even chopped up.. so if you have not tryed this stuff, best get ready to eat it yourself or trash it.. 

I am a democrat till death and FISHY proud of it..   

don't give in...2 or 3 days isn't anything..I know it's killing you, but he will eat once he realizes the krill aren't coming back soon. They are naturally opportunistic feeders and can and do go weeks without eating in the wild, not that it will likely come to that. Hang in there...should'nt be much longer. As for feeding I personally feed my adult once per day.