CichlidFish.com - Fish That Think.

hi, i'm new to this forum and hopefully it'll help me with my babies(my fish)

About a month ago I decided to fish up my 6 foot tank with 4 red oscars, 4 tiger oscars and 2 albino oscars. All the fish got along well except for my two albinos who were ostracised and kept behind the filter. Since then my oscars have unfortunately had white spot {supposedly}(resulting in 4 casualities, one of which was an albino). The albino's have always remained hidden behind one of my internal filters and rarely swim around. I added extra fake plants, some terracotta pots and some bogwood in the hope that the new territory and hiding places would draw them out and have the other oscars accept them, but it didn't. Now I have one albino left(Terry) and 5 others, he is still shunned and the same size I got him at, yet I feed him exclusively and make sure he eats what I give him. He is also bullied by my resident gold shark (who has some black scales since I added him?) who kicks him out of his hiding place and leaves him exposed to bullying by the mob. any help on this would be muchly appreciated as I want Terry to grow up big and strong.

AS you see poor terry is not going to last in this tank much longer.. I would MOVE him to another tank..OR if you dont' have one, find him a good home before they kill him... White spot is also called ICH, so did you treat the tank?? IF you lost some oscars to this, then you let it really get out of hand.. ICH is curable and if treated promply it shoudl not KILL your fish..

Do you have any salt in this tank?? Salt can keep most parasite at bay.. IT is 1 tablespoon PER 10 gal of water. .I say 10 gal of water due to you have scaless fish in your tank and they dont' care for a lot of salt.. THE NORMAL DOSE IS 1 tablp. per 5 gal of water but with scarless fish, this is too much..

As ICH is caused by fluctuating temperatures, please keep the tank at a STEADY TEMP.. ALSO stress plays a big roll here too. AS you had some hiding from the bullies and that made them stressed.. 

ALSO YOU HAVE WAY TO MANY OSCARS IN THIS TANK!! YOU are going find out later that this is not going to work.. When they start to pair up and spawn,,,, THE others in the tank are going to get it worse than what TERRY is going through now.. 

Your 6 ft tank is how many gallons?? This is LIKE saying my house is 25x35feet but that does not give anyone the square footage, or tell you the depth..  IF you are in the US,, then that is  most likey a 125 gal tank.. AGAIN I dont' know,,, THIS IS A GUESS....  but this TANK  is not big enough for that many oscars.. a 250 gal tank would not be BIG ENOUGH for that many oscars in few months.. YOU can do this for a while, but you best start deciding which ones you want to keep as you are going to have MORE 'Terrys' later on.. 

ok thanks for that.

I'll buy a new tank for some of the Oscars then and move the 4 big ones into it. I have a small red oscar who is about the same size as Terry.
I live in Australia so we use different measurements...It's 6 foot by 1 foot back by 2 feet high. To us that's 2 metres, by 30 cm by 50 cm....That is 360L...Not sure what that is in Gallons. there are also 6 silver sharks in the tank, and I plan to put in two bristle nose cat fish, two albino bristles and 2 clown loaches...Too much?

I shall get another 4 foot if I need to get another tank

YOUR tank is only a 95 US gal tank.. NOT NEARLY big enouth to house that many oscars even small ones and not have the problem you are having.. ONLY TWO OSCARS should be housed in that size of tank at 6 mos old to adult.. AND THAT IS ONLY THEM!!

SO YES you need MORE tanks  FOR EACH PAIR if you want to keep that many Oscars OR A BIGGER TANK of say, about 952 liters and that would give you a 251.+ US gal tank.. BUT this will not be big enough to house every thing U want..

And something else to concider. Oscars are swimmers so a long tank is more important than a tall one.. So any tank TOO or OVER 6 feet is great to house a big cichlids like Oscars in.. They do get to 1 foot + at adult so you have to always take that into account when you buy a tank.. Oscars get too 1 foot long+ and 6" or more tall..

IF these are stil small, like under 4" TAIL and all, you have time to get MORE TANKS if you want to have them all.. BUT at to over 6'" you are going to have to have more tanks then or U are going to have lots of injured Ocscars.. they wil start to pair up at this time and NO others wil be safe..

ALSO long slinder fish are concidered FOOD!! so watch what OTHERS you place in the tank as they wil TRY OR wil eat them before you can turn around!! 

On what YOU are going to place in?? well.. they might eat the loaches fast.. UNLESS you find the big ones.. Silver sharks as in bala shark?? interesting as my 5" Oscar ate mine.. SO that is concidered a long fish and is FOOD.. So get ready for that.. More like Severum are good for Oscars as they are more compressed in body type, tall wise and they can NOT fit into the Oscars mouth.. Silver Dollars are good too.. they are fast and dart away and they like to school together so get at least 4.. I dont' think your silver sharks wil last.. Oscars wil eat them eventually.. I like them but could not keep any.. I could now as I dont' have any oscars.. 

So welcome to fish keeping and HAVING MORE TANKS FOR THE FISH YOUR WANT!!  Seems more tank buying  or chosing which fish you can have with what you can afford.. 

Ghosh!!Something we have NOT discussed!!  The filters have to be thought out!! O man, it just gets better discussing filteration for OSCARS!! 

Thanks heaps for your help.
I'm reasonably cluey about fish - studying this topic at uni...
But not familiar with Oscars, I bought them as a gift for my dad, who doesn't even look at them haha. They're his favorite cichlid. I have in their tank an Under gravel filter and two internal filters on the side. I haven't really had any water quality issues in regards to ammonia, nitrate etc...only thing is my pH went a bit high, as in by .5 and my water went a bit yellow with tannons after I put bog wood in there, but I put a carbon packet in one of my side filters and did a partial water change which fixed that quickly.

I don't have enough room in my house for more tanks really, I already have three. Gourami's, gold fish and oscars. i guess I'll have to take a couple back to the shop.

And in regards to my sharks, my Oscars leave them alone. They are about twice the size of the oscars atm. Hopefully they wont end up smaller as I know sharks grow quite big. Do Oscars grow at a faster rate than other fish?

I understand about having room for more tanks.. I have a 10x10 bedroom redone and my hubby made me double tank stands so I could have MORE tanks in this room.. their are 11 tanks in here now, BUT one, a 29 is only tempory as a med tank for a severum.. this is for my  'Hobby'  and the fish I HAD, as they ARE changing some.. More into Africans now, but I will keep my Midas's..

Yes Oscars do grow faster than the normal cichlids.. As they can get to 12"+ in a years time if not sooner, depending on food and water quailty.. (LOTS of high protein, LOTS of water changes!!)
So it is best that U take some back.. Find Two that you really like and that get along GREAT and return the others... On the silver sharks, they are referred to as Bala sharks here, OR the Scientific Name: Balantiochellos melanopterus, OR Osteochilus hasseltii,,,, they will get to 14+ inches in the tank.. I have seen some big ones and IF my 125 gal was not for Africans, I would LOVE to have some.. Neat looking freshwater "Shark Looking" fish to have!!  BUT my 125 gal may not be big enough later at their full growth..      SO be aware HOW big they do get..

Also does any one get AQUARIUM FISH MAGAZINE??  They have an artical in the January 2007 issue YES I have this already!! months in advance!! THAT says that the UK is CAMPAIGNING AGAINST KEEPING BIG FISH!!
NOW if that isn't something!!   :protest:

See more on this here:

http://oscarsfishtank.com/discuss/index ... ic=22788.0
   

time to get rid of all the oscars and get things you can handle.. each oscar alone needs 55 gallons.. do the math.
if you can't afford it? get rid of them. them being in the tank together is what is causing the deaths, Ich.ick, caused by stress and poor water, als o i bet they have HITH.
the problem with oscars is they create such a huge amount of waste, like 30 times more than gold fish.
they get up to an average of 12" inches. the 6 foot tank, woul dbe nice for ONE oscar and like 5 silver dollars

In regards to the ich, the salt is a good idea coupled with a slightly higher temp (around 86*f) will do wonders for the ich, I doubt they have HITH at this stage but FYI carbon is generally accepted to be bad for Oscars and has been linked with HITH (hole in the head disease) Unfortunately I would have to agree with the general consensus of this thread in that that is WAY to many Oscars, the LFS boned ya. technically if u where REALLY dedicated and didn't mind multiple large water changes a week, u could care for 4 Oscars and nothing else. 3 could be done, but isn't recommended do to the fact that 2 will often pair up and beat the livin #%@! out of the 3rd. You're best bet is to keep 2 and liven up the tank with a school of silver dollars and or some clown loaches or something of the like. just my 2cents.. good luck with whatever u choose.

for that size of tank.. its 2 oscars and thats it... no pleccos, no silver dollars..
but if you had ONE oscar, you could get like 3 silver dollars. or something like that

oops, I think I misread you're tank size, 95 gal is big enouph for 2 O's but JUST like LOLD said.. my bad

thanks again for all your help guys, but I've found a few things out through observation...

1. IF I have more than 4 oscars in there, they may pair off, YES, BUT!!!!!!!!!
- they don't have room to beat each other up
- through a new way of feeding them they rarely have conflicts anyway. I feed them twice a day making sure they each get good...Basically i just hand feed them. I can tell the difference between them all so I know who gets food. Plus the type of food I feed them breaks up a bit in the water so the other fish get fed too.
2. clown loaches are fine, a mucas excriment on their skin ( required to protect them as they don't have scales) stops other fish from snacking on them as they taste like s@#%.
3. My silver sharks are fine as they are bigger than the oscars and will grow to be the same size. Even though there is limited room in the tank through frequent water changes I'm able to keep them growing. what stops fish growing in tanks is the feremones that reside in the water through excretements in waste and through the gills...Water changes fix this, fix keep growing.
4. yes I know how messy oscars are, but I have an undergravel filter in my tank that is handling the total nitrogenous waste fine, I have to traces of total ammonia or nitrite in my tank. Plus I have two biological filters on the sides of my tank that can handle the water capacity on their own. they also perform slight mechanical filtration and help provide extra oxygen for my water in the tank.
5. to add to the cleaner's list in my tank I have a bumble bee cat fish. this cleans up after my Oscars and I find my water is really clean and crystal clear. I should poste a photo for you.


With my beautiful Terry he is doing great in my gourami tank. when I put him in he was half the size of my pearl gourami. Now he is the same size. All the fish get along great in there...3 pearl gourami, two clown loaches, rainbow shark(I think you americans call them "ruby") tiger barb and a pair of bristle nose. I've got Terry on a great diet so he is growing really well. another month and a half and if he is bigger than the other oscars I shall put him back in that tank. Then he is the boss.

I'm confident that my system works now..I think I just panicked a bit and over-reacted. I'm pretty sure they didn't have white spot. I added four clown loaches to the tank. they are my water quality indicators. because of the lack of scales they are the first fish to show signs of problems within the tank. they are doing great, good colour and active. I also put in a bumble bee catfish to clean up after the oscars during the night. It's all running smoothly now.

And sorry Lady of lucid Depths, but I can handle oscars.

I'll keep you posted as to how they're doing.

Aussie Oscar Sez:

[b]clown loaches are fine, a mucas excriment on their skin ( required to protect them as they don't have scales) stops other fish from snacking on them as they taste like s@#%.

Many moons ago I kept a smallish Clown Loach with a pair of Oscars and always wondered why he was left alone -- Guess we learn something new every day!

I lost count of the fish and I have a headach trying to decypher it but at last count u had somewhere in the vasinity of 15 fish in there. the silvers will grow to 8"X6  the O's 12+X5, the loaches although slow will get around 12"X2 and the bristle nose cats5-6"X2  well...we gave sound advice, some just have to learn the hard way, you're fish will grow, there temperaments will change. I hope I am wrong and truly wish u the best of luck, but I believe u are on the road to a nightmare.
you're tank size...
Results computed by FishTank Online December 6, 2006, 12:34 am EST
http://boonedocks.net/fishtank

Water Type..............................Freshwater
Material................................Glass
Tank Overhead Shape.....................Rectangular
Length..................................72.00 in.
Width...................................12.00 in.
Height..................................24.00 in.
Wall-thickness..........................0.13 in.
Volume.................................89.77 gal (US)
Tank Material Weight....................57.87 lbf
Water Volume............................88.55 gal (US)
Water Weight............................736.85 lbf
Substrate Type..........................Medium Diameter Rocks
Average Substrate Depth.................0.50 in.
Substrate Weight........................24.78 lbf
Approximate Total Weight................819.50 lbf
Room Air Temperature....................72.00 °F
Water Temperature.......................80.00 °F
Heating Capability Required.............135.09 W
Approx. Total Fish Length...............72.00 in.
Mass Required for 1 PPM.................334.23 mg

try dividing your tank. going to sound odd here but here me out. put your 5 oscars together in a small portion of your tank. as small as possible but where they are still comfortable. leave them there for a week to 10 days and then remove the divider. keeping tham separated for that long will cause them to lose their territory. and since the albino is in the larger portion he will gain the territory and also some confidence and maybe even some size. if you have noticed that it is only one of the oscars doing the bullying then do the dividing but only separate the bully. this should do the trick. good luck. just remember that you are dealing with fish that have more than a two second memory and a distinct personality!

wow, re-reading this thread has been good, and I've proven everyone wrong lol!

I still have pretty much all of those fish, same tanks. They've gotten bigger too.

Oscars are doing really well, They're all about 12 inches now.

silver sharks are about 9 inches...

And I've added fish.

There's no problem with overcrowding as long as the necessary water changes are done.

I have a south american cichlid tank, 600 Litres....All the fish are fully grown, there's maybe 30 - 40 fish in there?
Average size of about 10 inches...Looks crowded but the fish have been kept together for around a year now. No problems !!!