CichlidFish.com - Fish That Think.

don't feel to bad, you are not the only person that I have helped that has not done a good cleaning on their tanks.. They have water issues like you do and that keeps them from proporley cleaning the tank.. but in the long/short run, the fish get sick, some even die before they realize what is going on..somewhat like what U are going through now..
Stress Zyme is really good in your tank right now as it does help nutrilize the Ammonia and high nitrites, nitrates that I am sure you are having.. See this on Stress Zyme..http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?acatid=424&aid=845

Now you said you have lost fish when you did a what change.. You are using Stress coat and that should take care of any harmfull chemicals like chlorine and chloramines, plus any hard metals that are in the water.. NOW one thing that it may be is LOW or HIGH pH.. Any kind of a 3 degree difference in the pH on a change wil really do a number on your fish. Like death..

TAKE a sample of your TAP water to the fish store and tell them you need to know where your pH is.. Also take one from your tank to see what the differences are.. They wil be different.. Please invest in a pH test kit on the results of the test.. they come in Low pH 6.5 to 7.6 and high, 7.6 to 8.8?..

Do you use any buffers?? Salt is needed to insure the fish stay healthy..It also helps with breathing, disease and other ailments that affect fish.. GET some Aquarium salt, it is in a milk like carton..I dose at hafe strength. I tablespoon per 10 gal..This is enough to help the fish.. ONLY add in on a water change NOT on tappin off the tank from water evaperation...
The exchange water can sit for 30 min and should be ready to place into the tank then.. the Stress coat is instant but letting it sit for a short time is good to make sure it is mixed good.. I use a small water pump on my exchange water to make sure it is mixed well..Add in the salt at the same time...

Now how much of a water change are you doing??
To calculate how much YOUR TANK SIZE x .25%= Don't change out to much, like 50% as it can cause more problems later..

So this is what I need to know now..

What is the pH of your tank??
Other chemicals you add:
Size of tank..
Salt?? do you use it??
How much of a water change do, DID you do??

Hi! I vacumed the graval and only made a 25% water change. I have a 55 gallon tank. I used the stress coat and stress syme. I used 1 teaspoon for every ten gallons as dirrected. I also use aquarium salt for fresh water fish. I used it the same way as the stress coat and stress syme. I have a bucket I brought just for my fish water changes. I put the water in it and added all the coditioners etc. I also put a Thermometer in the bucket so that the water can be at the same tempter as the water in the tank. I let it sit for a few days before I made the water change. I test the water with some test strips I brought from jungle. The results did not look so good. The colors pointed at the following results below.

Nitate (no+3) ppm 40
Nitate (-2) ppm 10.0
Total hardness (GH) ppm 300
Total Alkalinity (KH) ppm 300
PH- 8.4

I am asuming that the first Nitrate is the actual nitrate as it is higher..This is the exchange water and those reading are high, just the Nitrite and hardness, High hardness means your pH is high.. What is the reading in the tank say?? this is what you need to match the exchange water too..You do great on the temp.. But don't let the water site for so long...30 min is fine to get the water good and mixed.. YOU do need to test the tank water to see where it is at..Your water should not have that high of a nitrite reading but some water supplies do..Stop using the stress zyme and see what happens to the water in 30 min.. Don't let it sit for days UNLESS you have a way to aireate the water..A power head in the bucket works to mix it good.. test strips are not really good to use.. Get liquid test kits when you can..Get the HIGH pH make sure it is instant and not 5 min..Ammonia, Nitrite, and a nitrate.. The hardnes comes in a 2 pak so it gives you KH/GH..Easy to use and gives you the exact readings..
Your fish are used to this water, I wonder if the high nitrites are not killing your fish..Test the tank and let me know what they are..

The test I posted are from the tank. That is what the results are after I made the water change. I brought a bottle of easy balance from tetra. I added it in as dirrected to see if it will adjust the water but those are the results I got this morning when I tested the water in the tank. My fish look ok but I notice that my green terror is not eating as much. He swims around like normal but he has not been going for the food when I feed them.

Ok I had it wrong, it is from the tank and not the exchange water.. GOOD.. but the reason the Nitrites are so high is because you have not clean the tank, vacuuming the gravel removes the waste and food that stays and makes your reading higher..So those wil come down with more cleanings..YOU may need to do another cleaning in 4 days to get the Nitrites down.. Nitrates are always going to be the higher reading.. BUT you need to keep them under the 40ppm and 20ppm is better.. This can only be done with Vacuuming the gravel, and cleaning the filter BOX out weekly..Your GT is fine, as he is having problems with his eyes, he may not feel like eating..He will eat when he gets hungry.. Also do please check your tap water and see where it is at..
pH really is all that needs to be checked but as you use the stripes, I guess you do them all.. THIS is good, you need to know what the differences are from the tap to the tank.. TEST the tank before the water change, and then again in 24 hr AFTER the water change to see how much it has changed.. Most water in the tank changes with time from the fish's waste, deco and some substrate, and rocks..Mine goes from 7.4 to either, 7.2 to 7.6 within a weeks time on the next water change..

Thank you! So much for taking the time to help me and give me such good advice with these issues. My green terror probably would have died if it wasn't for you. Friday will make 4 days since I did the graval vacume in my tank. I will do another vacume then and I will also check my tap water before I place it back in the tank. I also have a 45 gallon tank with black and white convics. They are all doing good. They were not affected by the poor water conditions like my other fish. I am doing the second vacume in there tank today. I started taking care of there tank with all your great advice right away! The tap exchange water results for there tank are below.

Exchange water below!
1st Nitrate- 20
2nd Nitrate- .5
Total hardness-150
total Alkalinty 300
PH 7.2

Tank water results before water vacume.
1st Nitrate- 200
2nd Nitrate- 0
Total hardness-300
total Alkalinty 0
PH 6.2

I need to know if the pH from the tank is REALLY 6.2 or you miss typed.. this is extreamly low with the other readings in the tank..

AND it is Nitrite, your low number, Nitrate, the higher one...So # 2 is your Nitrite, this you need to keep at 0ppm.. NITRATE is always in the water but NEVER this high..keep at 40ppm and under..
These are high due to you have not cleaned this tank.. so they will come down with vacuuming and water changes..So dont' fret to much...More below...

This is what I was afraid of IF IT IS THE RIGHT READING on why your fish have died after a water change.. This is two great of a difference to be adding into the tank 7.2 into 6.2.. So let me know..I bet the high Nitrates are the reason it is so low.. 300ppm is way over the limit of safe margin for any fish tank..A few water changes and gravel cleanings wil bring this down greatly, this is what you need to work on, getting the Nitrates down to 40ppm..this has to be done slowly like every 3 days do a 20%water change.. 40gal x .20=8 gal of water to be removed and changed out with fresh..I want you to do only this amount as you dont' want to shock the fish into a higher pH any faster than necessary..EVERY 3 days is the limit on getting your nitrates down, which should bring up the pH. Do a test in 24 hr after the change so you know where you are at..What you need to do is go to 40ppm in NITRATES..Your hardness, KH alkalinity has crashed which is why your pH is so low. Once U start to do the cleaning and W/changes this wil come up..YOUR tank should only be a few degrees under or over what the exchange water is WITHIN a weeks time..At 7.2, so the tank should be 7.4 OR 7.0- 6.8 but not as low as you have right now..
.Don't forget about the same for the other tank with the GT in it..Same deal...But you said it has a pH of 8.3?? I think that was it..That one is two high, so this needs to come down..Do the same with this tank as you do for the 40 gal con tank..Once you get this all done and the readings are where they should be, your weekly tank maintence should keep you from having any problems.. CLEAN THE FILTERS TWO BUT ONLY WEEKLY!!

NOW if you have miss typed the pH.. you stil need to do some gravel cleaning and water changing to get them down..Do the same amount of water exchange of 8 gal..every 3days...

O and Convicts can live in a toilet and be happy.. so they are tough cichlids...

Yes, that is the results I got. I did it again after reading your post and it came out with the same exact results on the tank water. The exchange water colors looked a little diffrent from before.

Exchange water below!
1st Nitrate- 20
2nd Nitrate- 0
Total hardness-300
total Alkalinty 180
PH 7.8

Tank water results before water vacume.
1st Nitrate- 200
2nd Nitrate- 0
Total hardness-300
total Alkalinty 0
PH 6.2

Thats fine, i figured out that the alkalinity is the reason the pH is so low.. once you start to bring down the nitrates, the pH wil come up.. but must be done slowly like I stated... Your'l get their soon with your tanks.. Now you say the pH exchange water is at 7.8? that is stil fine.. The fish U have like a pH of 6.8 to 7.6.. they can do good in 8.0 but preferr the lower pH reading...
What kind of gravel do you have in these tanks? Something in the GT tank is really keeping the pH high.. although I know you are treating him right now, you need to start on this tank ASAP on getting it cleaned good...Once you get this done, your fish will get better faster..Any more ?? just post them...Barb..

I use rock gaval on both my tanks. I started doing the graval vacume last week on my 45 gallon. I am doing another vacume cleaning tonight and will continue to do it slowly as directed by you every 3 days. Untill the tank reaches the right water requirements. I will keep you updated!

Sounds good.. keep me-US all posted.. I wil get back to you ASAP..
On the gravel, that is fine, just wanted to make sure it was not a shell based substrate that would keep your pH up..
You need to start this tank cleaning ASAP too. that may help in the GT eyes more than anything.. IF you have not done a good cleaning in 5 days, do so now..I also want you to do 30%..Never mind the meds right now, you can redose the tank...

55x .30%=16.5 but it may be best to do a 20 gal exchange if his eyes are stil cloudy... this alone may be what turns him around.. then redose the tank at the 20 gal. That is 2 teaspoons of MelaFix.. then redose normal tomorrow OR when you do the tank (the next day) and not do any water changes for 5 days then do 20% 55x .20= 11 gal but make it 10 gal and that should be enough.. NOW if you have cleaned this tank within 5 days.. wait untill it is 5 days then do the 20 gal change out..CLEAN THE FILTER BOX AT THIS TIME IF you have not done so within 7 days...As you posted that his eyes are stil cloudy, it may be best to do more water changes until he gets better..but only every 5 days.. This is to protect him from the pH swings, his bio load and delute the Nitrates..

Sorry, another novel. so much to tell/ and you to do, but once you get this done it wil be worth it to have healther fish again and then only weekly tank maintances.....

Yes, I did a vacume on both tanks yesterday. I have been following all your advice. I also ordered a kit to test the water with. I should be getting it this week. I would like to ask another question. How many convics can be keeped in a 45 gallon high tank? My convics had babies a few months ago. I gave alot of the babies away. I still have a good 25 to 30 convics left. I am going to give some more away but how many convics can I keep in that tank.

Well, in a 45 gal tall tank, and concidering that they spawn like rabbits, two or three pairs if you JUST have to have convicts..As you get other spawns that live, you are fairly coned out you could say..those males are going to get 6" within a years time..As you have a Tall tank, this is going to get rough later with to many in the tank..They have been know to kill others as the parents team up and attack together..Amazing to watch them..They do good with each other thou, as they dont' really attack, just chase and run back to the nest if another one gets to close them them...
How many adults do you have? As in the parents..these guys like more bottom space than top space as they nest on the bottom and are very territorial.. I had 5 pairs in a 29 gal and it was a tight deal. A nest in every corner and one in the middle..These were not adult size thou, stil juvies at 2-3", but the others ate the others fry so it worked out great... but some do survive adding to the count..Do you want this to be a ALL convict tank? then you will have to decide on how many you want to keep as in the parents..IF you keep some of the offspring, they wil eat the other fry that comes along keeping the numbers down..
The females wil go to the top if the fry are eaten or she is not ready to spawn again when the male is...He wil stay with the nest guarding it from the others..4" clay flower Pots work best for this, you can clean and move them if needed..
You'l find out which ones U want to keep later.. ONE big male and a few females..By this time you may get tired of the cons and have others in this tank..

My baby convics are about six months now. I gave alot of them away but I still have about 25 to 30 of them. I had the mom and dad seporated from them untill they got big enough that they will not be eatten by there parents. Then I reunited them. They seem to all be doing fine but I know that there are to many of them for the tank size. I am going to give some more away. I just need to find some people to give them too. I do not have any other fish in there with the convics. That 45 gallon tank is only convics.