CichlidFish.com - Fish That Think.

I have a 10gal tank that houses a plecto, and 2 Convict Cichlids (1 male, 1 female). I have had the tank for 4 years with no problems but about a week before Thanksgiving I cleaned the gravel (50% water change) and changed the filter. (Nothing different than usual).

About 2 days later I noticed my female swimming sideways. I took a water sample to the fish store and found that my ammonia level was very high (2.0). Began doing 50% water changes every other day, per store recommendation. Then on Thanksgiving day I found an infestation of worms in my tank, panicked and completely cleaned and sterilized the tank (boiled rocks, put tank into dishwasher without soap, new filter, etc) and began my cycle all over again. At this point female was still swimming sideways but was showing herself daily.

Day after Thanksgiving purchased live bacteria and med "Pipzine" for parasites, which is what the fish store thought my female's problem was. I was told to do 25% water changes every other day. But because I still had high ammonia and couldn't remove the filter while treating with Pipzine (best result recommendation). I was in a catch 22 so fish store told me to stop using the Pipzine (I had done 2 doses) and to just continue to do 25% water changes every other day.

It took about 5 days to get the tank to level out (natural biofilter), waited a couple more days (to see if there were any changes in her behavior) and then went to fish store again for more recommendations as my female was now not showing herself, but hiding in her cave and usually just leaning sideways or upside down at the top (can see her through the hole), which she is still doing.

When I tap on the tank stand (as I do when I feed them), she would move for me but wouldn't come out. I was then told to treat with Melifix for 7 days for bacteria. I have done this and today is day 7.

Female came out of cave for me last night (first time in over a week) but struggled to eat, swam sideways, and floated at the top upside down. I called the fish store to tell them that it doesn't seem to be working. Fish store tells me that the bacteria probably got into her swim bladder and that she will die and that I can give her a painless death by putting her in a bowl of water with clove oil.

I don't want her to die so I am asking if any of you have any recommendations for me besides killing her or waiting for her to die. Is there ANYTHING else I can do?

Thank you,
Steph

To me it sounds like there is something wrong with the swim bladder. I haven't ever heard of this being an effect of a parasite though. Stranger things have happened. If it is the swim bladder I'm afraid there isn't much you can do for your fish. It sounds like you know what you are doing when it comes to the care of your fish and I'm sad to hear of your troubles. I wish I had more advice for you, hopefully someone else can give you a little more help.

Thanks Tug! Do you know of any other type of disease that could be causing these symptoms besides Swim Bladder? Is there any treatment (anti-bacterial) that may be better than the melafix? I did the 7 day treatment but not following the directions on the bottle (25% water change after 7 days), but the direction by the store clerk (25% water change every other day). Should I now do one following the bottle directions? Should I stop treating?

And what is the recommendation on killing her or just letting her die? (I hate to do either but want to be humane).

Sorry to bombard with so many questions but I feel helpless and have no knowledge to assist in my decision making.

Anyone else have some input/suggestions for me?
Steph

I've heard of tumors making a fish swim sideways. Not sure if this is the case with your fish.

I would definetly follow the directions on the bottle. Often you get to many different opinions of how to treat sick fish. This guy tells you one way and another guy tells you something else completely (get my drift). As for stopping treatment, I would treat as long as the fish is fighting. I would do a large water change to get some of the exsisting meds out. start from scratch sorta speak. Add meds (melafix) add some salt (1 tsp per 10 gal.) the salt is just there to reduce the stress level of being sick. From there just follow what the bottle tells you. Remember what I mentioned above this is just one man's opinion take it with a grain of salt.

For ways to end your fish if it comes to that. I'm afraid it has alot to do with what you think is humane.? Myself I do this: get a bucket and fill it about half full of very cold water, get a towel to put over the bucket. I net the fish and simply put it in the bucket. The shock of the cold water so sudden seems to just put them to sleep. I put the towel over the bucket so I don't have to watch. I've done this several times to convict juvies that I couldn't get rid off. To me that's not so bad it might be different for you. The toilet also works as a bucket, I just thought you didn't want to here that. Good luck, watch this post maybe someone else has a better idea.

Tug.....you said some salt? Just regular salt or epsom salts? and should I mix the salt in water prior to putting in tank so it isn't granulated? She is still fighting but she has leaned up against her cave so much her scales seems to be rubbing off in one place I can see.

If I do a major water change (50%?) am I running the risk of upsetting the biofilter and spiking my ammonia levels again causing more harm than good? My system is running without a filter right now because of the treatments I have been doing.

I read something tonight about it possibly being constipation and not to feed her for 4 days. Since I don't have a hospital tank and everything I do affects the other fish, should I try this and will they be ok? The article also mentioned putting 2 frozen peas (thawed) with the shell removed in the tank, which sometimes can help dislodge something blocking the swim bladder.

Also, something I didn't mention before, since the beginning of her getting sick she has had a whitish colored sac (not sure what to call it) under her. Fish store told me that was her egg sac and was normal but I had never seen it before (could be, I had never seen her upside down before).

And to add to it all I think my male has ICH and I'm not sure if I should treat for that now or wait until other treatments are done.

Feeling like I'm in a tornado; Grasping for straws here.

And thank you SOOOOOO Much for all your help!!!

Just use aquarium salt, not sure if it's epsom or not. Just whatever they sell at the fish store. Not table salt. I just add it staight to the tank when I use it. It will dissolve fairly quickly and it won't hurt if your fish does suck a little in to taste it. My Oscar loves eatting it.

For water changes I don't think it will hurt the tank enough to effect your fish, anymore than what they are going through already. With you removing your filtration your biofilter is already less. Most of your bacteria is housed in your filter media. When you medicate only remove activated carbon (charcoal) from your system not the whole filter. That way you still keep the bacteria that's in the housing of the filter or canister. With a sick fish your checking in all the time anyway so why not test your levels while your there. I do large (80%) weekly water changes on all my tanks if they need it or not. I have never had any problems with a spike of any kind. If you keep an eye on things you'll be able to spot any problem that may come up.

Your other Convict has probably caught Ick from the stress in the tank. When a fishes ammune system weakens the Ick parasite takes hold of the fish. With all the meds and water changes the healthy fish has got sick. Ick is fairly easy to cure, raise your temp to 84/86 degrees and add 1 tsp of salt for every 10 gal. after a few days the signs should fade. No need to add seperate Meds.

Constipation could be the problem, I have heard of the pea thing before. However this is all hear say, and I have to past experience with this problem. There is usually some sort of material hanging out of a fish that is suffering from constipation. If this white sack you are talking about is this material I have no idea....sorry. I've never heard of a Convicts egg sack hanging out of the body before, and I have breed these fish several times. Again just my opinion.

Your getting to a point were you must start thinking about your fishes well being I'm afraid. Is it best to treat and try to help up to the last minute, or to simply see the fish is suffering and end things yourself. This is up to you and you alone. I hope I have helped in some small way, it's hard losing fish I know. I also hope you can figure out what is happening, please keep me posted.

Tug

Thanks again for all your help Tug, it is greatly appreciated. I will go get the salt tomorrow and buy a new heater because the 10gal heater I have is maxed out at around 74 degrees. Which leads me to my last question: would temperature changes (about 2-4 degrees) daily cause a problem. The fish are in a cynder block room and it gets very cold. We heat it up when we are down there but the heat rises in the room so quickly that the tank doesn't have time to drop so I get a flex in the temp, usually 74 (when it's cold down there) and 76-78 when the heat is on, then slowly dropping back down over night.

Again I really appreciate your help. We've had these fish for 4 years and the female is my favorite out of the bunch. Going to fish store to buy necessary supplies tomorrow and will follow your suggestions. I'll post update in about a week.

Thanks again!
Steph;)

A steady heat is of course the best but most fish can handle a swing of 2/4 degrees both ways. Convicts are probably the hardiest fish I have ever owned so don't sweat the temp. to much. As long as it is over a period of time and not changing in a matter of minutes you should be fine. Sudden changes in temp. lead to illness simply because it shocks and stress's the fish. I would get a bigger heater that could keep your tank at a steady temp. without over working it's self. It will be worth it in the long run!!

I went to LFS today and bought new heater and aquarium salt. Did 50% water change with gravel vac and low and behold found "cottony" stuff in the water (fungus).

Went back to LFS got water checked (I only have ammonia tests), and ammonia and nitrites are high again (probably because I was running without filter for 10 days)....So bought new filter, pimifix and bio-spiro. Will do a 100% water change with gravel scrub first thing in the morning, put in new filters, add bio-spiro, aquarium salt and begin treating with melafix and pimifix. WOW!!!!

I feel so bad that my fish have to keep undergoing all this stress. I really appreciate your help and suggestions. Keep your fingers crossed for me. I'll post update in a few days.

Steph