CichlidFish.com - Fish That Think.

Well, I'm a new commer to the world of fish and am learning alot already. My brother gave me his old 30 gal tank (I think that's the size?) and I went to Petland with the fiance and we saw some Oscars we liked. I didn't know much about them but explained to the guy this is my first tank, it's been running for about 2 weeks now so I should be ready for some fish. He said that these Oscars are pretty hearty and alot of fun, so I said ok and then he told me to buy some fake plants and some special mini pellets for them to eat and then he also told me that I should get 3 since they would like to have company.

Fine, he seemed pretty knowledgeable so I did all that. Got the fish home, put the bag in the tank for about 25min then scooped in some of my water into the bag and let it again sit for a number of minutes before netting the fish out of the store water and placing them into my water. This I think was the proper way to do things? Anyways, went to bed, next morning one is dead. Not a good sign, called up the store and they say it happens and to just freeze him with a sample of the water and bring it in for a refund.

Then I got exploring the world of Cichlids and found out they can grow to be like 1' long and for 2 a 50 - 75 gal tank is much more ideal... oh... well that sucks.

Anyways, for the time being I'm stuck with these 2 Oscars and I have my tank setup with a bunch of sandstone and various rocks I collected and boiled to kill any disease, but then I also read it's not good to have sharp rocks in the tank with these guys... well mine are very sharp so now I'm thinking I might have to pull some of the rocks out.

But anyways, came home today after work and the little guys (I think they are very young, only maybe a couple inches long) are just hiding under the rocks and havn't hardly touched any food. I'm scared they may stay under there and not move around or eat, I want them to be healthy I bought good food but how can I get them out and looking around without stressing them even more? I want to remove more of the rocks (I removed 2 large ones, that's why the water is so low) but they are under them and I don't want to accidently crush them or stress them out.

What should I do? Move the rocks and their little hiding spot for now until I can get better suited rocks or possibly drift wood? Or should I just leave it as is and not worry about them?

Any info is greatly appriciated at this time

Oh, and I have frozen minnows I use for fishing, can I feed them any of those? I live in a small town 200kms from the city so I can't just drive over to the store and pick up treats or anything for them at this time so I'm trying to find ways to make them happy with what I have.









This is where they are hiding

Hi, Tom, and welcome to the forum!  A lot of folks here got introduced to Oscars in a very similar way -- that is, with too small a tank!  Bright side is that your guys aren't too big yet, or they couldn't hide under those rocks.  Great looking setup by the way, although for Oscars maybe too much of a good thing.  They're really messy eaters, and having rocks across the whole bottom like that leaves a lot of spaces for uneaten food to gather out of sight and decay.  The hiding is quite normal -- they're smart fish, and want to be sure they're safe before they come out and be sociable.  The frozen minnows are fine for occasional treats, but a high quality pellet or stick is nutritionally superior.

You O's should be fine in that tank for a couple of months -- they grow fast.  Meantime, start checking the classifieds in your local penny-saver type papers, or in the buy/sell sections of forums like this, Craig's Lists, etc.  It's possible to get a really good deal on a tank large enough to house your guys permanently.

Here is a thread you might find useful:

http://oscarsfishtank.com/discuss/index ... ic=19106.0

Are you familiar with the nitrogen cycle, and how it affects new tanks?  If not, here's another thread of interest.  Refers specifically to African cichlids, but the part about the nitrogen cycle is pretty universal.

http://oscarsfishtank.com/discuss/index ... ic=16962.0

Good luck with your new friends, and keep us posted!

Hi tom, First things first.. The oscars wil hide for a few days.. DO not feed them as they wont' eat.. Leave the light off as much as you can for a few days, this relaxes them.. turn the lights on more when you are home,  so they can see you.. Shake the food bag/can at them to get their attention and feed just a few pellets if they are out.. MOVE slowly..  Also take out as much of the larger rocks as you can, as this is not a good setting for the oscars as dan suggested, not because of sharp rocks, and yours have sharpe edges,they are to young to hurt them selves, but oscars like to swim, they dont' care really for caves.. They are hiding due to a "new Home"..  

Test kits tom, Do you have any?? As you are only two weeks?? into a new tank, your ammonia is going to spike at dangerous levels and needs attention of 20% water changes.. As you have added now the ammonia makers, the Oscars, you need to monitor the ammonia levels  (Get Liquid test kits ONLY) and when they get to 1.5-2.0, you need to do a 20% water change to delute these down and you may be doing 20% every 3 days to keep them at a safe level.. then the Nitrites are going to take off.. Like the Ammonia, this can kill the Oscars too at high levels.. SO again, you are going to have to monitor the Nitrites and do the 20% only water changes when needed.. Once the Ammonia goes to 0ppm then the Nitrates take off and fall to 0ppm.. Your tank is cycled and you are home free.. this takes a good 30 days with fish...
BUT please dont' feed anything but pellets to the oscars for a good couple of months.. This wil keep the tank cleaner and your fish healthy.. they are to small for any kind of other foods...
Re-moving most of the big rocks will help you keep the tank cleaner. Oscars are messy and you wil find more rocks is not a good thing with Oscars. You can always add in more later with a bigger tank AS YOU are going to need it with Oscars..

Tank Size: NOW how big is the tank really:  MEASURE THE OUTSIDE OF THE TANK and post it back here so we can tell you what size tank you have.. A 29 gal tank is this 30Lx12Wx18 tall.. YOU need to know the size so you can do water changes and add in salt, dechlorinator and medications if needed..

WATER CHANGES HOW MUCH:  a water change on a  30gal ?? x .20%=5.8 gal BUt do 5 gal of water OUT and dechlorinated/salt back in AT THE SAME TEMP AS IN THE TANK.. OR within 3F either way..
20% won't hurt your bio trying to get established in the tank.. As the Ammonia peaks and then the Nitrite, you need to delute them with water changes, some being as close together as days...

SALT do you use any?? Best to get some.. The regular docs fish salt is fine.. Delute at half strenth before you add it into the tank...That is 1 table per 10 gal of water....

I am sure their is more to tell you.. but this should get you going on the test kits.. Please get then ASAP as this could kill them within hours if not deluted with dechloinated water changes..
As a matter of fact, best to fill the tank back up IF you haven't done so.. That looks to be just over a gallon of water and that could save them until you see where you are at with the Ammonia.. Barb.

Looks like I have a 29 Gallon tank by the quick measurements I took

Barb, thanks for the info, seems like a fair bit more work then I was planning on but I want to keep these guys happy so I'll follow your advice. Maybe for the next day or so I'll leave those rocks in since they seem to like hiding behind them, but they will come out.

As of right now no test kits, no one I talked to at the pet store mentioned them and it wasn't until I was reading some forums I found out how required they are. I'll try to get something setup asap for them. Problem is I don't live near a major city so I can't just run down to Walmart and grab some, but I work for a power plant and they have a kick ass lab for treatment of water, I'll talk with them and see if they have some test gear I could use or if they could run water samples from my tank.

And doing the water changes, right now I'm using tap water that's been run through a britta filter since our water is rural and usually has some pretty heavy minerals in it. Before I put the water in should I leave it a couple days to try and make sure any chlorine is evaporated?


Tonight while I was watching TV they were peaking out from behind the rocks and watching me... just sitting there staring... as soon as I'd move they'd dash back under the rocks. So hopefully they are going to get used to me and start to venture out a bit more so I can take some pictures

First and most important to do to ANY tank is dechloinate the water!! NOW Wal-mart american DOES not keep any test kits..SO IF you have a credit card OR a checking account, best to order on line from some of the fish supply places.. SO I am going to show you what you need this way.. YOU can order catalogs from  these places on the first page..ALSO newsletters on sales they have 3x aweek sometimes.. I get them regularly...

Dechlorinater: YOU can get this a wal-mart but it is cheaper for a bigger size on line, as you have a small tank, you can get by with the store bought one.. SEVERAL to chose from.. Stress coat, to others.. I use Aqua Safe.. This takes care of chlorine, chloramines, (substite for chlorine at the water plant) and harmfull metals..
Stress coat: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/P ... 004+112993
I notice Stress coat does NOT remove chloramines.. THIS IS NOT GOOD!  Best to cal your water supply and see if they use chloramines instead of chlorine.. IF they do use the chloramines, DON"T USE THIS PRODUCT!!  Someone correct me if I am wrong here....
AquaSafe: Removes ALL: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/P ... 004+112993
NOW do not use a product that removes ammonia as your tank is going to cycle and this is not a reliable product to use with a NEW cycling tank...

NOW the test kits you need while the tank cycles for the 30 days: I test my tanks monthly OR when I see signs of illness only, as my tanks are cycled, but sometimes I let them go over the weekly water changes as some do not have a lot of fish, so by-weekly water changes on SOME of my tanks... As yours is cycling YOU need to monitor the Ammonia and do the 20% water changes as needed unitl it goes to 0ppm, and then the Nitrite wil peak, do the 20% water changes on high readings and then in two to three weeks it should go to 0ppm.. As long as you DONT' ADD ANYMORE fish to this tank, you should do fine... ALSO you NEED THIS to clean the gravel in the tank, IF you dont', you dont' get out all the waste and food that keeps the cycling from completing; So get this too: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/P ... 2004&Nty=1

Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate Test Kits GET the instant one for AMMONIA: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/P ... 004+113074

I see this Ammonia test kit is NOT instant.. So if you do get this one, get a time, as you are going to need a timer for the nitrite and nitrate as they are 5 min tests...
YOU should find the instant at one of the other fish supply sites I listed below.. BEST to get the instant one..(my perference anyway)

NOW about nitrate, dont' confuss with NITRITE,, they are very different.. NITRITE kills your fish at any level if left alone, nitrate does not but once the tank cycles, you wil always have a reading in the tank.. With Oscars, best to keep under 40ppm... Your weekly water changes wil keep this down..

This may be a neat idea for you, Even thou this tank is cycling, this wil alert you to high Ammonia levels: I could use these in my fry tanks:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/P ... 004+113074

pH: you need to know where you are on your pH and hardness.. AS you use a britta filter this is NOT a good source to remove the chlorine/heavy metals for fish,  but does a good job for human consumption THIS is also where the DECHLORINATOR COMES IN.. I know now why your first Oscar died.. YOU DID NOT USE A WATER CONDITIONER!! I am surprised the others are alive.. but GET THIS ASAP!! Wal-mart has the AquaSafe get that one,  use as directed at 1 teaspoon per 10 gal of water.. AND ON ALL your water changes!!

ADDED IN.. DECHLORINATE the water you place back IN ONLY!! NOT the whole tank again.. IF you take out 5 gal of water, then dechloinate the 5 gal of water at 1/2 teaspoon.. If less water is added back in, then a 1/4 teaspoon but you can over use this and not hurt the fish...

Salt: this is what you need,  BUT only do 1 tablespoon per 10 gal of water, NOT the recommend dose.. this is two much salt for most tanks.. This is the dose I use.. Use in your water changes of 5 gal or more ONLY.. NOT less.. Salt does not evaperate... AFTER you dose the tank, only add back in through your water changes, DO not redose the amount for the whole tank!! Wal-mart has a small one OR at a bigger retailer may have a bigger one:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/P ... 2004&Nty=1
Or this one, but you use more and it cost more: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/P ... 2004&Nty=1

Hardness in NOT the metals in the water.. it is carbonate harndness KH AND GH, general hardness, dissolved magnesium and calcium ions.. So with out giving you a lesson in pH and hardness at this time just know you need to see where you are at and mostly just need to test once monthly to keep it stable..  I wil get you a link later so you can read up on hardness, pH and how they work together...So the test kits you need, But not necessary RIGHT NOW:

pH test kit GET the LOW pH for now: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/P ... 004+113074

KH-GH hardness Kit: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/P ... 004+113074

DrFoster&Smith is not the only ones on line.. I always compair for the best prices.. Please check them all out and get the best deals... Also get free catalogs, E-Mails on weekly specals...
Petsolution: http://www.petsolutions.com/Aquatic+Sup ... -1-C-.aspx
BigAlsonline: http://www.bigalsonline.com/

Filter!! What kind do you have right now?? BEST to get a Emperor 400 for this tank with bio-wheels. for some reason, this is a great  invention with handling Ammonia in a tank and the wheels are filled with nutrifying bacteria to jump start your tank for cycling.. check them out and BEST priceing on LINE. See filters on all the above sites.. I have 17 of them and they are great!!

well, I dont' know what else their is for you to get right now.. Deco can wait really until you get a bigger tank, look through the Foster&Smith and the others for great deals. Remember what I said about getting a different kind of water conditioner for AMMONIA!! you need to know where the ammonia is at, this only gives back fause reading and could kill your fish if U use it  now..
IF you keep the Oscars, best to save now for that 100+ gal tank..  :toothy9:

If you are going to use salt (some recommend, some don't) don't add the same each time.

i.e.  if you have added 4 spoons of salt to your original water and do a water change don't add another 4 (I may be teaching you to suck eggs - if so I'm sorry, but it's amazing how many people do actually keep adding it). 

If your water change was 25% then you only need to add another 1 spoonful to keep the same salt concentration.

Whereas with dechlorinators (I used Aqua plus, but I believe that's a European product) and bacteria boosters (eg cycle) overdosing is not going to harm the fish (unless you filled your tank with it and no water i suppose BUT that WOULD be expensive !!)

Noticed that nothing has been mentioned about a bacteria booster, as the others have said ammonia is going to be produced, this is a by product of fish waste, rotting food (you can't remove it all & the fish won't eat it all) & the fish natural 'breathing'.

A certain Bacteria eat the ammonia and turn it into nitrate, which is why you'll get spikes in the toxicity levels that Barb was talking about.  Ammonia spike comes first and the bacteria grow that consume it. As Bacteria numbers grow more nitrite (NO2) is produced and another type of bacteria eats this (most bacteria products contain both) and turn it into nitrate (NO3)  This you reduce with your water changes. 

Looks like it was not mentioned earlier but you need to get yourself one of these bacteria products to help kickstart your cycle (perhaps the other US residents can advise what is redaily available over there).

PS. Good luck, Love my fish and particularly Murphy (Oscar)

Hi there,

I too just bought some Oscar Cichilds a week ago. I had a 45 gallon tank which I donated (with equipment and fish) to a local high school classroom. I upgraded to an 180 gallon tank, using the Fluval FX5 canister as the filtration unit (processes like 600 gallons of water every hour). I purchased four Oscar Cichilds, and from day one they have been nothing but enjoyable to watch. They already recognize me as the one who feeds them; every time I walk pass the tank they race to the top and follow me, hoping to get fed. They've already splashed me once yesterday as I was feeding them.

Given how big these guys will get, these four will be the only ones living in my tank. I want to give them the most space available without crowding them with other livestock in the tank.

Well they are doing much better now. The smaller black one is at the begging stage but is still somewhat scared of me when I sit right next to the tank and drop in pellets. But he's learning. The larger red one still likes to hide when I'm around so I'm trying to feed the black one, then leave a few pellets floating and walk away so hopefully the red one is comming out to get a bite to eat also. But when I sneak in and peak at them like after work or anything they are both zipping around the tank and seem happy so that's good.

On a bad note my filter started leaking as a seal went out on it... so that's not good I'm fixing it as we speak but it'll take a few hours for things to cure before I can get it back up and running. So while the filter is down I'm in the process of changing a fair amount of water in hope to keep any nasties at bay. And I'm in the process of making an order for test supplies, but I'm not sure if ordering them will be quicker then waiting til I'm going through the City and simply buying them. I'll be going into the city in about a weeks time and I'm sure shipping will be about the same if not longer since I live outside the city.

So a few things not going my way but I am trying to make the best of it and keep them happy. When I go away for the weekends and I'm gone for a few days should I bring someone in to feed these little guys? I've heard larger ones can go for weeks without food but these guys are still pretty young.

How many of the pellets should I be giving them? I've got Hikari Cichlid Gold mini's right now and I usually give them a few in the morning then a few throughout the evening when they seem to be hungry. I'm trying again not to overfeed them to keep the Nitrate/Nitrites at bay

As a feeding suggestion, find out how many pellets they'll eat in 2-4 minutes.  More than that is excess.  The amount will of course increase as they put on size, but the principle remains the same.  For the little guys small, frequent feedings is better.  As they put on size you can shift to twice daily.  Many successful fishkeepers feed only once daily with good results.  Good luck with that filter!

Well another update they are both still happy as can be and it seems like eating rather well. The black one still seems to outeat the larger red one but I think that's because he gets slightly picked on so he's eating like a horse to outgrow the other one! Payback is a bitch...  or at least that's my theory

I tried to take some pictures to show you guys, I turned off my flash and set it for close up, then when they swam up to the glass to see what was going on I pressed the button but I have a digital with auto-zoom so a orange light lit up and scared the poor little guys, the black one zipped to the other end of the tank and played dead... he went almost completely black (almost no orange stripes or orange in his eyes) and just sat there motionless between some rocks. Felt bad for the little guy so I didn't try to take anymore pic's... took him about 5 min before he "woke up" and went back to normal.

And when I was cleaning some of the tank out with just some small air bubbler tubing (Havn't bought a python yet) the little black guy I'm not sure if he was scared or pissed off but all of a sudden he had bright white stripes on his back that normally you can't see and he was kindof trying to stare down the hose.

So kindof fun. They don't seem as active as some people describe theirs but we're just at the week mark so maybe they are just getting used to everything and their new tank. It's also weird they never seem to move to the other side of the tank, they just sit around the right side around the one piece of slate stone never on the side with plants/bubbles/gravel etc

Oh well, still entertaining at least! Oh, and I'm trying to change their water fairly often, since the tap water out here is pretty crappy and I havn't been to the city to get some de-clorinizer yet I still have to leave the water sit for a day or more to try and let it evaporate, hopefully within the week that will be a thing of the past and I'll get a test kit and can see how good/bad things really are

Sounds good!  Enjoy!